I admit I like the 70's raised back end look, but I don't want to achieve it at a large sacrifice to handling. Usually I see this accomplished through really tall spring hangars and air shocks. I just did a spring relocation and a mini tub, and put in the MP XHD springs. Unfortunately, the springs sit way lower than I had hoped. With a 15x10 wheels, and a mild 500ish hp 440, I don't want to much tire for the engine, so I think I should stick with 28's for now. What I'm getting at is the back end doesn't sit as high as I like. Is there any way to get it higher without changing the springs? I'd like to stay away from pump up air shocks

i don't think there is any other way except to re-arch your springs. longer shackles maybe but they look goofy

My springs were flat so I ordered the new ones with an extra leaf & a +2.5" lift.

Air shocks are hard on the shock mounts which are not made to take the extra load. Replacing a damaged shock cross member is very invasive and costly. It is really good to avoid air shocks.

I think choices you have are 1) Re-arch current springs 2) add a full leaf to current springs for ~ + 1" 3) combination of 1 and 2 4) New springs with desired lift.

Adding a leaf will increase both spring rate and height... kinda like air shocks. May or may not be good for your situation. Adding a leaf to my sagged MP XHD springs at a local shop cost ~$100 which I thought was reasonable... plus I wanted the higher rate.

I'd suggest you talk to a spring shop or two nearby and get their recommendation and plan accordingly.

this might be a stretch but would it be feasable to lower the front 4 hole and the rear 2 hole rear mounting points with some welded stock? I think that would at least keep the rate the same. However which way you achieve your goal I would check the ujoint angles when done. for sure no air shocks

Air shocks get a bad rap... and probably for good reason in Mopar circles. They work just fine in most cases but Mopars just don't have upper shock mounts strong enough to handle the extra stress. Especially when the metal is 50+ years old.

I'm building a 426 Street Wedge recreation and back in the day the owner would have used air shocks or shocks with helper springs to get the stance he wanted. To solve this weakness problem, I added a piece of 2"x 2"x .120 wall square tubing as an integrated crossmember to supplement the stock shock mounts. Admittedly it would have been a difficult job if the car hadn't been on a rotisserie. Bottom line: this will add enough strength to the mounts that I won't have to worry about ripping them out with air shocks.

Nice mod centerline. Now that you guys mention it, I remember being bewildered when we had the rear out to do the mini tub. I couldn't believe how flimsy the shock mounts were, it was like floor pan thickness at most. I did weld on some thick washers to the mount holes which had become elongated

Yea, the mounts themselves are made of pretty thick material but they're spot welded to maybe 18 ga. sheet metal. When I did my mod I perimeter welded each mount to the square stock just to make sure they wouldn't pull away.

You've already compromised the handling by moving the springs inboard, raising like we did back then is only going to make the handling worse ...

Good luck in your quest.

The only legitimate way is springs with an increased arch. I too have used longer shackles but they have several bad effects. I was younger and dumber back then.

A set of custom springs isn't that expensive. You can pick the spring rate you desire.

Adding a leaf to your existing springs will increase the spring rate meaning the rear end will ride harsher. IMHO it's just another crutch, unless you regularly carry moonshine!

Whatever you end up doing, try to keep the front and rear pivot points at the same relative height from the ground. Change the relationship too much and you get into self-steering effects. For example, my '64Dog rear was set up, stock, so that when the vehicle tilts one way, the rear end steers in the same direction. It isn't much when unloaded, but I do a lot of mountain driving and having the rear start steering itself towards the outside of a curve is kind of spooky.

R.

You will get better gas mileage going "downhill" all the time...

Dogdays, can you elaborate for me, I'm not fully understanding the pivot points. Do you mean the the height off the ground the front and rear of the springs attaches to the frame?

he's referring to the areas where suspension meets frame and suspension meets wheels in a front to back plane. when the back is elevated it wants to whip around when cornering. i too love the raised back end 70's look and know exactly what he means.

Super Stock Springs.

Redrill the front mount to lower the bolt hole, that will raise the the rear of the car up. The lower the hole to the bottom of the mount the higher the rear of the car will be raised You can test that by using a block of wood as a spacer between the top of spring eye and the inside of the mount with the bolt removed

I built my own front spring mounts when I narrowed the rear on my '68 Coronet bracket car. They were boxes that I welded into the subframe with four sets of holes for the front spring mount. I had planned to use the SuperStock springs so the front sets were for the stock length springs and the rear sets were for the shorter SS springs. I drilled each pair with a lower and an upper mount. Actually the car hooked so well that I stuck with the stock springs. The Ramcharger is going to get rollers in the back to keep it low.

On the subject of ride height, I went for a ride yesterday with a friend in his '36 Plymouth street rod that is low and far from slow. It handled like a go-kart on steroids, that was fun!!

Just put the 3800# SS springs on the back

Gus

Rearched stock springs. The rear tire is 28" and more than completely clears the rear wheel well lips in terms of height. Ride is much firmer than stock, however I like it.

I agree with re aching your springs,it is the best scenario in my opinion and watch your pinion angle.

There is no "correct way" to raise your back end.

Because raising the back end is never optimal in a car.

It shifts the weight forward, lessening traction and braking.

It raises the CG, making handling worse.

When I see a car with it's rear jacked up it tells me musclecar equivalent of a ricer.

how many inches?

I would agree. Adam you have relocated/minitubbed. you are on the right track

Don't care, cars like mine look terrible at stock rear ride height. Like an old granny with a dragging ass.



It was done 20 years ago so I couldn't tell you. A 28" tire fully clears the rear wheel well lip in terms of height.

why sure there is ! way back in the day, "fearles frankie", a local "muscle car ricer" had a 65 or so mustang with a real fast [ ] v8 3speed ! only problem was, he couldn't blaze the tires like the rest of his tribe on the street, and he didn't have money for air shocks. but he got a brilliant idea ! he jacked up his beast until the rear was off the ground and the springs had a real good arch to then. next, he cut up two 6x6 wood blocks just a tad longer than the distance between the axle tubes and the floor pan, wedging them between said distances with a sledge because they were longer than necessary and he didn't want them to fall out ! a little flat black rattle can poofery, and wow ! looked just like "hi-jackers" with 175lb. air in them ! went out cruising friday night, and when he showed off his new stance, well, by golly, we was sure 'nuff impressed and congratulated him for what a kewl badass hotrod he now had ! he said it really "improved" his horspower, because he could now blaze the tires almost forever ! after a little goading, [well not really] he was gonna show us. out on the street, one, two, three, and he is off...... tires just a boiling smoke [7.75x14" size on chrome-ina-can wheels]. boy was us guys impressed ! "fast frankie" blasted past under the interstate bridge where the locals made their "quota" for the city. "fast frankie" got an invitation to the "policeman's ball" with a slight twist added. seems the officers ordered him to let the air out of his shocks, but then found out about his lift kit. frankie had to have his car towed. those of us there that night still chuckle when this incident is brought up !

Well, at least he fixed the wheel hop issue early Stangs had, lol.

Get a set of these from Summit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EXP-13120/

Just mount bigger tires.
The rake some still seem to like will follow.

At least with the big rear tires there's some legitimate reason for the stance.

why the bashing from some of you? the op asked how to do it correctly without ripping his cross member out with air shocks not if raising it is correct. those of us that like the look would like to know how others of 'us' have done it.

Why are you bashing those of us that are pointing out the issues of raising the rear end. Can you read the OP's mind to know that he's aware of it?

Because back in the day this was usually only used to put WAY TOO big of a wheel and tire combo on a car and always looked "jimmy rigged".....

The wheel options and multiple back spacing options today make no sense to do that anymore

That said, if that's what the OP likes, more power to him..

BUT, just like 45 years ago, be prepared for some not very flattering comments about it...

this is helpful.



this is bashing
"When I see a car with it's rear jacked up it tells me musclecar equivalent of a ricer."

the OP didn't ask "what's your opinion on the look". he likes the look, i like the look and so do many of us.
for the 800-1000 miles i put on my car a year i'll sacrifice some handling and a few worn idler arms.

My old man jacked his 63 Maxi to get some 32" in there.

Was just talking to another member about the SS Springs but I chose the xhd springs because the car is something like 4000 pounds without driver plus it will have multiple people in it a lot of the time. Not to say the SS Springs would be bad I just thought the ride would be better with the xhd springs.

I've heard many complaints about the xhd springs sitting too low brand new and then other people have said their's were great. I must have got one of those bad batches because it looks like it's sitting lower then when it had the old stock Springs.

I don't need the back clown car high, just a nice rake look. My car looks horrible flat. I think I'll just use the lowest mounting hole for now then in the next round of modifications I'll get espo springs and look into the front 2" drop spindles

Raising the rear, back in the day was done to fit drag slicks inside the wheel wells. However, racers knew how it shifted the weight forward so they would raise the front to compensate.

This is an example of what was done back then. The car has a classy rake and still drives, stops, and handles well.



Now days, with front and rear IFS raising the car isn't as easy or necessary. Those of us who lived through that period still like the raked look though.

This is where to start w this quest.

Just mount bigger tires.
The rake some still seem to like will follow.

At least with the big rear tires there's some legitimate reason for the stance.

Doing nothing but this to my Challenger makes all the diff. in the world.
Here's a pic of the sig challenger w bigger rear wheels and tires

the thing with the e-bodies is the rake look is built in they have the upward swoop at the rear.

i don't think anybody is looking for that 'clown-high' look like with the old N-50 series rear tires.

this is mine with the rake i like. the back sits at 23". the back is raised so my tires don't rub when i corner. the car is tubbed but i run a 29x15x15 in the back.

back view

So, exactly, how would this wear out idler arms?

I know I never said anything about that so it must be something you believe.

not 'believe' but told by the state inspections dude back in my youth. made sense given the number of idler arms i went through in my first RR.

a couple of other unconfirmed things i was told way back then

smoking dried banana peels will get you high. could never get them to light BUT i can confirm that the sulfur fumes from all the matches will get you dizzy and incredibly sick to your stomach.

touching yourself in an unholy way will make you go blind. at 62 i'm still ok but i'm working on this one

Back in the day, I used shock extensions w/air shocks to clear the L70s (yes, L70s) that left no daylight in the rear fender wells of my 70 Challenger. Occasionally, fenders would rub after going over a highway dip at speed; but had the look of a 70 Pro-Stock Challenger I've always liked.