Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Does cam change affect torque converter stall? #2137960
08/21/16 03:49 PM
08/21/16 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline OP
super stock
Wicked49670dart  Offline OP
super stock
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Would going from a solid lifter cam 268/272 to a 274/280 change converter stall speed? Foot braking off idle car was a tenth slower. Normally 1.44 was 1.54 this time out but air temp was hotter than normal, was 90 degree's air temp. The car did pull a lot harder in 2nd and 3rd gear with a better mph. The converter is a 10" NOS Turbo Action and flashes at 4800rpm on NOS! Thanks Matt


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2137991
08/21/16 04:43 PM
08/21/16 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
Maybe the new cam is too big and you lost torque? I've seen that happen a lot of times.

Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138002
08/21/16 04:54 PM
08/21/16 04:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
It would make a difference on where you put it in
but yes the cam will change the torque.. might just
be where the torque is made(up higher) but if you advance
the cam it will move the curve lower.... I put my 416 cam
in straight up(on the roller) because I didnt want to make
more torque to make it stall higher.. on my FT cam I moved
it 4 degrees advanced for the torque(because its a smaller
cam)
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/21/16 04:55 PM.
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2138009
08/21/16 05:03 PM
08/21/16 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline OP
super stock
Wicked49670dart  Offline OP
super stock
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Thanks guys, This cam is 108/104 degreed in at 104 at 2 degree's advanced! The old cam was a 108/105 degreed in at 105 at 2 degree's retarded! Thanks for all your info! Matt


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138038
08/21/16 05:54 PM
08/21/16 05:54 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks Offline
master
deaks  Offline
master

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
What sort of difference have you seen in the other increments and is your et slower overall ?


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: deaks] #2138081
08/21/16 07:15 PM
08/21/16 07:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline OP
super stock
Wicked49670dart  Offline OP
super stock
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
On motor ran the exact same et and a little fast mph 10.77@124.96. I have 8 time slips with this 10.77 but the mph ranges 123.00 to 124.96. On nitrous it varies on where my Nitrous controller is set. The only nitrous pass with the new cam was 10.04 at 136.67, last time out with the old cam and a lot cooler air temp was 9.76@134.01 but the Nitrous controller was off so the full 200 shot once the accelerator was at W.O.T. This pass I had it set at 2 seconds at 10% duty cycle. Still has the same 1000 rpm drop between shifts, shift at 6700 falls to 5700 cross at 7400. I do leave off idle no trans brake. Would a higher rpm like leaving on the brake make a difference? Thanks Matt


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138145
08/21/16 09:13 PM
08/21/16 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
To get the best 60 ft and 330 ft times you have to test the stall RPM and the shift RPM twocents It wouldn't suprise me at all that you will see a big difference in the 60 ft times just raising the RPM on the footbake up to around 2700 RPM and higher up scope I normally will try 2300, 2500, and 200 to 300 RPM increases each test until the car gets its best 60 ft times and reaction times. One of my old NHRA stockers would get the same results at 1200 RPM and 3500 RPM, every other RPM between would spin the tires shock shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2138165
08/21/16 09:40 PM
08/21/16 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline OP
super stock
Wicked49670dart  Offline OP
super stock
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA

Thanks Cab, I will try that next!


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138174
08/21/16 09:57 PM
08/21/16 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
If the converter is correct with the combination, foot brake or trans brake the car should 60 foot pretty close to identical times.
Same with changing starting line rpm's. Should have very little if any effect.
Changing staging rpm will effect your reaction times though.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138383
08/22/16 08:36 AM
08/22/16 08:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I believe the stall changes with the square root of available torque. So a small drop in torque from a bigger cam won't drop stall much, but it will drop some. BUT, you now have a double whammy. A bit less stall and a motor that doesn't like it.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2138407
08/22/16 10:26 AM
08/22/16 10:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
greg is right, the converter "K" factor varies with the square root of torque so the change will be small.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2141068
08/26/16 12:56 AM
08/26/16 12:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline OP
super stock
Wicked49670dart  Offline OP
super stock
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Thanks guys!


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2142409
08/28/16 12:45 PM
08/28/16 12:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
gch Offline
master
gch  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
Make some passes with the same weather you have run your previous times so you can compare apples to apples.

Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: gregsdart] #2142437
08/28/16 01:37 PM
08/28/16 01:37 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
W
Wedgeman Offline
pro stock
Wedgeman  Offline
pro stock
W

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By gregsdart
I believe the stall changes with the square root of available torque. So a small drop in torque from a bigger cam won't drop stall much, but it will drop some. BUT, you now have a double whammy. A bit less stall and a motor that doesn't like it.


Could someone explain the square root factor ?

THANKS

Re: Does cam change affect torque converter stall? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2142530
08/28/16 04:06 PM
08/28/16 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
If a converter will stall 3000 rpm with 200 ft lbs of torque, then doubling the stall to 6000 rpm will take four times the torque, or 800 ft lbs. If you find the square root of 200ft lbs, then divide it into the rpm the converter stalled at, (3000) you get what they call the K factor. Do the same with 800 ft lbs, divide the 6000 rpm by that square root of 800 and you will get the same number, or the same K factor. So the K factor is the constant that will tell you what stall speed you will have once you know how much torque changed. Multiply the square root of the torque by the K factor and you get the stall speed.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1