Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: AndyF]
#2112425
07/18/16 01:39 PM
07/18/16 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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Time and money are interchangeable. MM most likely doesn't have enough cash to speed the project up so they are doing what they can when they have the money to fund it.
If Ford wanted to release a new FE block they could have it on the market pretty quickly but they would throw 10 engineers and several million at it. Projects go pretty fast when you have lots of cash to grease the skids. At least MM is willing to try. "Return On Investment" dictates production manufacturing.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2112463
07/18/16 02:25 PM
07/18/16 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351
fredericksburg,va
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I am smarter than that. Starting from scratch tooling and core boxes, plus getting the casting process right takes TIME. Just because the first castings were cast 18 months ago, does NOT mean a single one of them was usable. After that run, any number of things may have needed to be changed. If that was tooling or core boxes, that is not a "shelf stock" item, nor are they cheap.
Make it like before...........so you mean with weak main webs, core shift and questionable oiling? Or do you mean with a max 4.380 bore, no provision for bigger cam, higher location, or bigger lifters. And two bolt main?.........gotcha. How many are YOU in for like that at $3500 a pop I want a stock block Hemi (more than strong enough) to replace the beat to death pieces i have now. If they want a 2000 or more hp engine, do billet, why waste time on an inferior design, just beating a dead horse. All those getting started processes do take time, but any problems-changes should be done before the first casting, heck there's plenty of materials they can use for the first prototype instead of cast iron. Forgot to add, back in my shop class in the mid sixtys the shop teacher had signs posted around to make one think. The one I remember the most was the 5 P's, proper planing prevents poor performance. Over the years I've learned how true that is in everything.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 07/18/16 02:40 PM.
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2112957
07/19/16 12:13 AM
07/19/16 12:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,150 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,150
Melbourne , Australia
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I am smarter than that. Starting from scratch tooling and core boxes, plus getting the casting process right takes TIME. Just because the first castings were cast 18 months ago, does NOT mean a single one of them was usable. After that run, any number of things may have needed to be changed. If that was tooling or core boxes, that is not a "shelf stock" item, nor are they cheap.
Make it like before...........so you mean with weak main webs, core shift and questionable oiling? Or do you mean with a max 4.380 bore, no provision for bigger cam, higher location, or bigger lifters. And two bolt main?.........gotcha. How many are YOU in for like that at $3500 a pop I want a stock block Hemi (more than strong enough) to replace the beat to death pieces i have now. If they want a 2000 or more hp engine, do billet, why waste time on an inferior design, just beating a dead horse. All those getting started processes do take time, but any problems-changes should be done before the first casting, heck there's plenty of materials they can use for the first prototype instead of cast iron. Forgot to add, back in my shop class in the mid sixtys the shop teacher had signs posted around to make one think. The one I remember the most was the 5 P's, proper planing prevents poor performance. Over the years I've learned how true that is in everything. That reply just states how little you know about what is involved in producing a cast block.
Alan Jones
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: moparroad]
#2113140
07/19/16 11:35 AM
07/19/16 11:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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they would throw 10 engineers and several million at it
Henry II contribution: the Ford racing method = throw money at it.
I agree that an actual re-design isn't that simple, but just adding metal where it broke before has served as the fix for 100 years so far...
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2113215
07/19/16 12:43 PM
07/19/16 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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That reply shows you don't know jack. Be in a business for 45 years where you make a new product almost every week, then get back to me. Its like talking to 16 year old dropouts.
Are those products made for a narrow market like Mopar blocks? I would be surprised if Mopar parts make up 10% of the performance market. All businesses/manufacturers have to make new products & if there's no R.O.I. that product is dropped.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: Roughbird72]
#2113270
07/19/16 01:43 PM
07/19/16 01:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351
fredericksburg,va
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That reply shows you don't know jack. Be in a business for 45 years where you make a new product almost every week, then get back to me. Its like talking to 16 year old dropouts.
Are those products made for a narrow market like Mopar blocks? I would be surprised if Mopar parts make up 10% of the performance market. All businesses/manufacturers have to make new products & if there's no R.O.I. that product is dropped. r Let me say this first, I'm not posting to hurt anyone's feeling, just trying to pass on what I've learned over the years. ALL R&D is done before the first product is made whether it be cupcakes or space shuttles, no mater what the market is. There should be only two problems after the blocks where cast. 1- shoddy casting, In which case find someone better. 2- bad machining, find someone better. If you have to change something, R&D wasn't done properly to start with. Things fail because people get in over there head and did not think it through , know your limitations. If you can't make a dime, don't start it, that's part of R&D.
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2113586
07/19/16 09:21 PM
07/19/16 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,150 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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Melbourne , Australia
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The reality is they are most likely having to subcontract everything, other than the final product testing. So I think it's safe to say the delays are probably $$$ related. I'm not going to pretend I know the nature of your business Crabman, I don't. But you cannot deny designing, casting and putting a new block into production is not a small undertaking.
Alan Jones
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: moparroad]
#2113607
07/19/16 09:43 PM
07/19/16 09:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
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New York
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"ALL R&D is done before the first product is made"
Let me make a minor correction: ALL R&D is reasonably believed to be done before the first product is made. Then the mistakes are discovered, and Version 1.1 becomes the next project. Leg over leg the dog got to Dover.
Not sure? How many different iron B/RB production heads have there been since 1958? Since the first one was perfect, what reason would justify the extra few million spent?
NO ONE gets it right the first time, every time.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: moparroad]
#2113765
07/20/16 01:22 AM
07/20/16 01:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,505 DFW
mr_340
master
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master
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Posts: 3,505
DFW
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That sounds like the first company I worked for right out of engineering school. We had a running joke that it wasn't a prototype, it was early PRODUCTION!
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2113837
07/20/16 09:39 AM
07/20/16 09:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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Joined: Nov 2010
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jersey
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"That reply just states how little you know about what is involved in producing a cast block." That reply shows you don't know jack. Be in a business for 45 years where you make a new product almost every week, then get back to me. Its like talking to 16 year old dropouts. So, when can we expect you to ship the first batch of blocks?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2113838
07/20/16 09:41 AM
07/20/16 09:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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That reply shows you don't know jack. Be in a business for 45 years where you make a new product almost every week, then get back to me. Its like talking to 16 year old dropouts.
Are those products made for a narrow market like Mopar blocks? I would be surprised if Mopar parts make up 10% of the performance market. All businesses/manufacturers have to make new products & if there's no R.O.I. that product is dropped. r Let me say this first, I'm not posting to hurt anyone's feeling, just trying to pass on what I've learned over the years. ALL R&D is done before the first product is made whether it be cupcakes or space shuttles, no mater what the market is. There should be only two problems after the blocks where cast. 1- shoddy casting, In which case find someone better. 2- bad machining, find someone better. If you have to change something, R&D wasn't done properly to start with. Things fail because people get in over there head and did not think it through , know your limitations. If you can't make a dime, don't start it, that's part of R&D. Right. Because no product in history has ever been recalled over bad R&D.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2114020
07/20/16 01:26 PM
07/20/16 01:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351
fredericksburg,va
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That reply shows you don't know jack. Be in a business for 45 years where you make a new product almost every week, then get back to me. Its like talking to 16 year old dropouts.
Are those products made for a narrow market like Mopar blocks? I would be surprised if Mopar parts make up 10% of the performance market. All businesses/manufacturers have to make new products & if there's no R.O.I. that product is dropped. r Let me say this first, I'm not posting to hurt anyone's feeling, just trying to pass on what I've learned over the years. ALL R&D is done before the first product is made whether it be cupcakes or space shuttles, no mater what the market is. There should be only two problems after the blocks where cast. 1- shoddy casting, In which case find someone better. 2- bad machining, find someone better. If you have to change something, R&D wasn't done properly to start with. Things fail because people get in over there head and did not think it through , know your limitations. If you can't make a dime, don't start it, that's part of R&D. Right. Because no product in history has ever been recalled over bad R&D. So, that makes it all right, normal procedure now. Plenty where not recalled because it was done right to start with. If I made a block there would be no grand announcements until it was done.
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: moparroad]
#2114819
07/21/16 02:26 PM
07/21/16 02:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368 michigan
turbo toad
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 368
michigan
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Heres the info i just got from the guys at muscle motors take it for what it is.........heres the response i got asking about there low deck block.
Yes its true. We will have a machined block next weekend at the Monster Mopar show @ Norwalk. We will also have them at the Mopar Nations in Columbus a few weeks after that. Yes we have a cross bolted, big bore 400 block available. 400 or 440 main sizing is available and well as big diameter cams. Priority main oiling and oil to the lifters is standard. We don't anticipate having inventory for about a year. Everything is built to order for right now. $1700 deposit gets your place in line. then 6-8 weeks we will be ready to deliver the block and the balance is due when it is ready to ship.
All block B, RB wedge, RB Hemi all start @$3800 and are small bore
Big bore big cam Big main in 400 block cross bolt #5 Bushed lifter bores Are all upgrades and will incur additional cost.
Cast and machined in the USA, steel billet caps and ARP main studs std.
Last edited by turbo toad; 07/21/16 02:29 PM.
Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: moparroad]
#2114925
07/21/16 04:52 PM
07/21/16 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I read that as, they will be delivering pre-ordered blocks to those who sent in their $1700 deposit in about 6-8 weeks, and that they should have "inventory" available on the floor for sale in about a year.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks
[Re: turbo toad]
#2115423
07/22/16 12:00 PM
07/22/16 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,351
fredericksburg,va
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Heres the info i just got from the guys at muscle motors take it for what it is.........heres the response i got asking about there low deck block.
Yes its true. We will have a machined block next weekend at the Monster Mopar show @ Norwalk. We will also have them at the Mopar Nations in Columbus a few weeks after that. Yes we have a cross bolted, big bore 400 block available. 400 or 440 main sizing is available and well as big diameter cams. Priority main oiling and oil to the lifters is standard. We don't anticipate having inventory for about a year. Everything is built to order for right now. $1700 deposit gets your place in line. then 6-8 weeks we will be ready to deliver the block and the balance is due when it is ready to ship.
All block B, RB wedge, RB Hemi all start @$3800 and are small bore
Big bore big cam Big main in 400 block cross bolt #5 Bushed lifter bores Are all upgrades and will incur additional cost.
Cast and machined in the USA, steel billet caps and ARP main studs std. Sounds great, a little clearer now since they're casting three blocks.
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