Small block roller lifters
#21
02/17/03 10:05 AM
02/17/03 10:05 AM
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Posts: 568 Ormond Beach, FL
71STROKERFISH
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Ormond Beach, FL
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Will roller lifter link bars that connect the two lifters interfere with the block? Do all blocks have to be ground a bit to ensure there's no clearance problems??
I've got a 415ci aluminum headed 1976 360 block which is currently out of my car. I'd like to yank the 280/474 purpleshaft and trade it on a roller..just need more info....
-dc SOUTHERNPLAINSMOPAARFEST.COM 2018 Jeep Trackhawk 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 5.2 AWD-Daily grinder since 1997 1971 Barracuda, 414ci, 6bbl Fitech, 727 1970 Barracuda Convertible, 472 Ray Barton Hemi, 727
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#24
02/17/03 04:11 PM
02/17/03 04:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona
clonestocker
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Guys, There is a post running about this right now just look for it. later matt s
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: dwdart]
#29
02/17/03 10:35 PM
02/17/03 10:35 PM
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Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona
clonestocker
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Ok, Let me try. 1)If you want to oil thru the pushrods you must bush the block (any block) the bushing has an oiling orfice. 2)The R-1/R-3 block require a longer roller tappet because of a tall tappet boss. Standard solid or hydralic(sp?) lifter. But for a solid or roller tappet lifter you must block the oil paasage in the block. Oiling thru the head. 3)The 340/360 block use a standard roller,solid or hydralic lifter but for the solid and roller tappet you must block off the oil passage. Oiling thru the head.
later matt s
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: 71STROKERFISH]
#30
02/17/03 10:53 PM
02/17/03 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Alright, I've been watching this post all day, and I was'nt going to relpy to this post because I am NOT a SB engine "expert" but then again I don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate to help answer your questions..... (EDIT I Type WAY too slow LOL) So here is my best shot, if anyone else out there knows more than this or has corrections to make, be my guest and fire away........
I think "Clonestocker" and I confused things in the other post because we were discussing pushrod oiling. 98 % of guys out there running a solid roller in a SB Mopar are not going to oil through the pushrods. The reason "W5Dart66" and Clonestocker want to do it is because of the T&D non Shaft Mount Rocker arms REQUIRE pushrod oiling. AND to oil through the pushrods requires Bushing the block and special roller lifters. But if you don't fall into the T&D crowd don't worry about bushing the block (unless you want to correct lifter geometry and make it dead on perfect) Bushing a block is an expensive machining operation (~$400-$700 depending on the shop)
Let's start off with a factory block.... In a 273/318/340/360 if you want to run a Solid Roller: You have 2 options...... First was the OLD school way, Tubing the block and running any old .904" Mopar Solid Roller lifter. The link bars interfering with the block would all depend on what brand they were etc. But if any clearancing was required it would be minimal. TODAY we now have the Crane/Comp lifters that do not uncover the oil galley hole, and can be used without tubing the block. The only disadvantage I can see of these lifters is the fact that if one pops out you lose oil pressure instantly where as if you had tubed the block or bushed it, you would'nt lose oil pressure.
NOW if we have an R-3 or 340 Resto Block..... We have issues LOL. The R-3 has alot of extra material around the head bolt bulges, which interferes with the link bars on even the "supposed" Correct MP Roller lifters as Weedlayer found out. An R-3 will have to be clearanced for the link bars no matter what brand lifter you try to stick in there..... AND there is water behind the "meat" you are trying to remove, so CAREFULL material removal is the key here.... But once the block is clearanced, you just need and intermediate shaft with Bronze gear, due to billet steel roller cam being so hard. And obviously you need valvesprings that can handle the radical ramp profiles of a roller camshaft.
Sorry about all the Bushing the block confusion on the other post. But yes I did talk to W5Dart66 and the reason he had to bush his block for pushrod oiling WAS excessive clearance as I thought it was. But like I said before he is in the 2% minortity of guys who HAVE to bush their block.....
Last edited by TheOtherW5Dart; 02/17/03 10:55 PM.
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#33
02/18/03 11:11 AM
02/18/03 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,686 Phoenix, AZ
Comp_Chassis
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From what I understand of the new lifters, up t just over .600 lift, no, you dont have to limit the oil to the lifters, but, if you are running .650 lift or more, they still suggest blocking off the lifter galley because the lifter wheel will still be pushed up into the oil galley. There is no way to stop from uncovering it past a certain lift.
You also have to block the drivers side galley too, or it will dump oil pressur too, but this is a lot easier to do. All of the oil is pumped directly into the passenger side galley. This galley interconnects with the mains and this is how they get thier oil. The drivers side lifter galley gets its oil from the front main. Oil is fed down to the #1 main from the passenger side lifter galley and then crosses over with an interconnecting passage to the drivers side galley. To stop the oil from getting there, you either tap and plug this passage at the main or drive a plug in the galley under the cam plate back far enough to cover up the feed hole.
Once again, if you are using pushrod oiling, you have to bush both sides of the block so that the lifters can get oil.
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#35
02/18/03 05:29 PM
02/18/03 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona
clonestocker
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Quicktree, You need to bush the lifter bores if your going to oil the top end thru the pushrods. matt s
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#37
02/18/03 06:46 PM
02/18/03 06:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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If you use the CompCams #828-16 solid-body roller lifters, you do NOT need to do any mods. With 1.6 ratio Harland Sharp rockers I'll have right at .600 lift.(.563 with 1.5) This is the same exact cam and lifters I had running in it with the stock crank. The lifter valley did, however, need to be clearanced for the link-bars to clear. The lifters use captured link-bars.
In this pic of my stroker buildup, you can see a little of where I had to grind for them to clear. (it looks like more than it is)
Last edited by Scotty; 02/18/03 06:54 PM.
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Re: Small block roller lifters
#38
02/18/03 07:01 PM
02/18/03 07:01 PM
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Quicktree
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#39
02/18/03 08:15 PM
02/18/03 08:15 PM
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Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona
clonestocker
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Scotty, I have the solid body rollers. What your saying is that you don't have to put the tube in the oil gallery? Anyone else? matt s
Ryan , ill get back to you i'm busy building my tranny....thx
Last edited by clonestocker; 02/18/03 10:03 PM.
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: clonestocker]
#40
02/18/03 08:55 PM
02/18/03 08:55 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: Quicktree]
#44
02/19/03 02:51 PM
02/19/03 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
still waiting on someone to explain the bushing and tubing process (explain how it's done)?
Boy we're not demanding are we? LOL J/K Tony.....
As far as the bushing process...... I think Carl has some pics of his block being done at Kammer & Kammer either on his website or in the tech archives, I don't feel like searching for them right now. But I'm fairly sure it's on his website. Anyhow, also there was an article in I belive MM a few months back, (MIGHT have been Mopar Action, can't remember which) where it showed block machining prcesses being done at Barton, and bushing the lifter bores was shown/ discussed. So might want to check those out.
But basically the procedure involves setting up the block in a BHJ fixture which locates the lifter galleys precisely as far as angle/alignment to the camshaft. Then while the fixture is still attached, it acts as a "guide" for the lifter bores to be drilled out to oversize. Then you have perfectly aligned/angled fresh lifter holes, albeit oversized..... And then the individual bronze bushings are installed by hand (basically pressed in) and then they are individually hand honed to size, giving you a perfect lifter oil clearance. Now the nice part about bushing a block is, you can bush to any lifter diameter you want....... Basically the only advantage here is you can bush to GM size and open up the solid roller lifter selection to an even greater amount. You can then use GM ultralight roller lifters in your SB Mopar. Of course if you were going with a Flat tappet cam, you would'nt want Smaller Dia. GM lifters though LOL. My R-3 will be bushed to GM size and I will use lightweight GM roller lifters..... Gotta be different
Now, as far as tubing a block....... and for simplicity sake I'm going to copy this word for word from Larry Shepard's book "How to Hot Rod Small Block Mopar Engines"
"INSTALLING TUBES"- Tubes are relatively inexpensive and much easier to install. Once you have the tubes, the drill and ream that's required (all are available from Chrylser), you can install the tubes yourself. Using the ream, enlarge the right side oil galley halfway from either end. Remove all the oil galley plugs. After reaming, fit the tubes in from either end; then re-install the plugs. Next pound the round nosed, tube peening tool through each tappet bore on the right side to dent the tube in properly. Then with the long drill bit provided in the kit, drill all oil galleys from the mains, into the right oil galley tube. The last step is to block off the left side with a threaded pipe plug at the front of the block."
To tube a block you need both P4120603 (Tube and Peen tool package) and P5249508 (Drill and Ream Package) They sell them seperatley so if you ever do more than 1 block, you just buy both the first time and when you want to do second and third etc, you don't have to keep paying for a new drillbit and ream every time.....
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: RyanJ]
#45
02/19/03 03:28 PM
02/19/03 03:28 PM
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Quicktree
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Re: Small block roller lifters
[Re: 71STROKERFISH]
#48
02/20/03 06:40 PM
02/20/03 06:40 PM
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