I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
#2094004
06/18/16 04:18 PM
06/18/16 04:18 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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I was having issues with my injection... it just wouldnt learn... after talking to Rich for a period of time(he was on the road headed to a race) he took the time to pull over and talk me through my issues... so I want to say THANKS Rich for all of your help.... and he had to put up with my LACK of knowledge and terminology.... he finally figured out how I managed to screw up... I didnt have it in self learn mode... all I did was follow what the tech at Holley said... but I guess I failed in some part of it... BUT Rich took care of this IDIOT ... thanks again Rich... hope I can help you out some time
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094012
06/18/16 04:41 PM
06/18/16 04:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DARTH V8Я
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You're far Far FAR from an idiot Mr P. Over the years I greatly benefited from your knowledge.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#2094019
06/18/16 04:54 PM
06/18/16 04:54 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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You're far Far FAR from an idiot Mr P. Over the years I greatly benefited from your knowledge. I worked on injection back at Chrysler... but it was all the mech portion..drilling manifolds, flowing injectors, lines and regulators...I never did any of the electronics of this stuff.... so on that part I am a IDIOT..and thanks to him for putting up with me... now this evening I get to go out for a drive and let it learn... gonna go out on Woodward for a little fun... sure wish I knew this wasnt learning before... a lot of wasted time
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094032
06/18/16 05:27 PM
06/18/16 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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You're far Far FAR from an idiot Mr P. Over the years I greatly benefited from your knowledge. I worked on injection back at Chrysler... but it was all the mech portion..drilling manifolds, flowing injectors, lines and regulators...I never did any of the electronics of this stuff.... so on that part I am a IDIOT..and thanks to him for putting up with me... now this evening I get to go out for a drive and let it learn... gonna go out on Woodward for a little fun... sure wish I knew this wasnt learning before... a lot of wasted time stop talking like that, you have forgot more than I will ever know, and besides you are one of the people on this forum that I look up to the most, we all learn somthing every day and there is no shame in asking question's
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: dartman366]
#2094046
06/18/16 05:48 PM
06/18/16 05:48 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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You're far Far FAR from an idiot Mr P. Over the years I greatly benefited from your knowledge. I worked on injection back at Chrysler... but it was all the mech portion..drilling manifolds, flowing injectors, lines and regulators...I never did any of the electronics of this stuff.... so on that part I am a IDIOT..and thanks to him for putting up with me... now this evening I get to go out for a drive and let it learn... gonna go out on Woodward for a little fun... sure wish I knew this wasnt learning before... a lot of wasted time stop talking like that, you have forgot more than I will ever know, and besides you are one of the people on this forum that I look up to the most, we all learn somthing every day and there is no shame in asking question's Thanks guys... and thanks to Rich... I try to help if I can
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094073
06/18/16 07:00 PM
06/18/16 07:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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You're far Far FAR from an idiot Mr P. Over the years I greatly benefited from your knowledge. I worked on injection back at Chrysler... but it was all the mech portion..drilling manifolds, flowing injectors, lines and regulators...I never did any of the electronics of this stuff.... so on that part I am a IDIOT..and thanks to him for putting up with me... now this evening I get to go out for a drive and let it learn... gonna go out on Woodward for a little fun... sure wish I knew this wasnt learning before... a lot of wasted time stop talking like that, you have forgot more than I will ever know, and besides you are one of the people on this forum that I look up to the most, we all learn somthing every day and there is no shame in asking question's Thanks guys... and thanks to Rich... I try to help if I can I sometimes wonder what warp zone I`m in based on the stupid stuff I do.............Mike has been very helpfull for sure in all areas............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094141
06/18/16 09:46 PM
06/18/16 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,177 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Not knowing something does not mean you're an idiot Mike. Not being willing to LEARN does. ☺
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: moparx]
#2094355
06/19/16 11:45 AM
06/19/16 11:45 AM
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Things didnt turn out to well yesterday...after the changes I tried to head out on a run....it was so fat I almost didnt make it home... it was pouring fuel out of the pipes... not sure if this is the problem of the O2 or not... my thinking is that the O2 was so fouled it wasnt getting a reading...I'm going to change out the O2today and see what happens...from what Rich said it should have started to learn..but I dont think the O2 could tell the puter anything.... just a guess... if the O2 doesnt change things I'll call Rich tomorrow ...we were having a hard time hearing each other.. so for all I know I could be all wrong
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094362
06/19/16 12:05 PM
06/19/16 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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TRENDZ
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Single, or dual wideband? Is this box checked? Can you do a data recording screen shot?
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2094364
06/19/16 12:09 PM
06/19/16 12:09 PM
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Single, or dual wideband? Is this box checked? Can you do a data recording screen shot? Yes it was checked AFTER Rich told me to..prior it was NOT... I dont think I can do a screen shot.. I wouldnt know how.....am I correct that if the O2 isnt working it could do this.... single wide band
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/19/16 12:10 PM.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094365
06/19/16 12:11 PM
06/19/16 12:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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am I correct that if the O2 isnt working it could do this.... single wide band You betcha. I can kill my O2's with my diablo on my truck and it'll load right up with fuel.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094367
06/19/16 12:14 PM
06/19/16 12:14 PM
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Also the box below the checked one is checked as is the one to the right for the temp.. Rich told me to set 800 rpm for the rpm one
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/19/16 12:15 PM.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#2094397
06/19/16 01:11 PM
06/19/16 01:11 PM
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am I correct that if the O2 isnt working it could do this.... single wide band You betcha. I can kill my O2's with my diablo on my truck and it'll load right up with fuel. Did the fuel kill the O2 or was it something else.. I think(guess) the the fuel coated the O2 so bad that it couldnt even get a reading....but what bugs me is that a O2 sensor reads the amount of oxygen so why add more fuel if its already low on oxygen... but I'm going out to get a O2 and try it... thanks for the info
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094408
06/19/16 01:27 PM
06/19/16 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Because it starts misfiring when it is overly rich. Every stumble sends oxygen and liquid fuel over the sensor.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094409
06/19/16 01:27 PM
06/19/16 01:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Its a TRAP!
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Can't say what killed the O2, or if it's killed. What does your log say? Is the O2 within spec? anything above .9v replace, constant below .5v over a few minutes replace.
Reasons for overly rich:
Plugged air filter/ Faulty ECU/ Faulty mass air/ Faulty MAP sensor/ Faulty idle control valve/ Faulty fuel pressure regulator/ Faulty fuel injectors/ Restricted fuel return line/ Fouled spark plugs/ Faulty ignition wires/ Ignition timing/ Faulty oxygen sensor/ Faulty air fuel sensor Faulty EVAP etc. Associated wiring Engine coolant temperature
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094425
06/19/16 02:03 PM
06/19/16 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Since it was running and driveable before turning on the feedback, I would guess that the wideband was overfueled for long enough before turning it on that it ruined it. I would suggest turning off the correction, clearing the learn table, cleaning the plugs, get it running as well as you can manually with the bad sensor, then install a new sensor. Ignore(and let the ecu ignore) the bad o2 sensor and tune it by ear as you have done for years. You'll then be in the ball park for the fresh sensor.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2094439
06/19/16 02:17 PM
06/19/16 02:17 PM
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Because it starts misfiring when it is overly rich. Every stumble sends oxygen and liquid fuel over the sensor. Do you think it COULD be the O2...plus I sent you a PM thanks
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094465
06/19/16 03:17 PM
06/19/16 03:17 PM
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Trendz.... another question... on the Summit site the part number for the O2 says its a 4 wire...same part number as mine.... but mine has 5 wires... I dont want to order the wrong one at $150 each.... is this one at Summit correct...one thing it does say is Commander.. it does say replacement sensor for 534-198(which is my number... even has the same P/N on the sensor itself).. but I just find it strange about the 4 wire and 5 wire thanks
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2094884
06/20/16 11:42 AM
06/20/16 11:42 AM
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Bump Trendz.... another question... on the Summit site the part number for the O2 says its a 4 wire...same part number as mine.... but mine has 5 wires... I dont want to order the wrong one at $150 each.... is this one at Summit correct...one thing it does say is Commander.. it does say replacement sensor for 534-198(which is my number... even has the same P/N on the sensor itself).. but I just find it strange about the 4 wire and 5 wire thanks
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: moparx]
#2094897
06/20/16 11:58 AM
06/20/16 11:58 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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i was under the impression that o2 sensors now days are heated ones, and they were all standardized with 4 wires ? well, up to 08 or so anyway. what would the 5th wire do ? No clue... when I worked with O2s they were 1 wire, 3 wires then 4 wires... but this has a total of 7 wires but 2 brown wires are jumped together... the other 5 are(what I will call.. live)... I will look today to see if all 5 go into the O2 itself... like you say all I've seen for a long time are 4 wires(heated)
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2095135
06/20/16 06:13 PM
06/20/16 06:13 PM
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67vertman
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If it was pumping fuel out of the tail pipe, are you sure its not a stuck open injector? I would bench test them.
My Monster are real!
Living within your means makes life pretty easy.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2095165
06/20/16 07:11 PM
06/20/16 07:11 PM
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Posts: 8,165 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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A typical Wideband O2 is more than 4 wires. A normal narrow band O2 is 4 wires or less.
Dumb question, but in the Holley software can you datalog at all? If yes I would want to see what the O2 signal looked like before buying a new sensor. You may be trying to learn at engine speeds and loads that don't give adequate signal to the wideband so the adaptive feature can't figure out what to do.
As Trendz mentioned, incomplete combustion or misfires show up as lean, so it's going to keep adding fuel trying to chase it.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2095180
06/20/16 07:33 PM
06/20/16 07:33 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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I talked to Holley today and yes a bad O2 will drive it fat.. I have one coming tomorrow I hope.. plus now I one have the learn mode on... I cleared the one fuel table and its running SLIGHTLY better.. but I dont get any fuel change on the learn table... also I dont know if it matters but I have 1 O2 on the right bank and the left bank was turned on..right side wasnt.. the holley guy didnt think it mattered but I swapped it over.. it automatically turns on the left side
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2095899
06/21/16 10:17 PM
06/21/16 10:17 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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I put in the new O2... things are doing pretty good.. but I have a question... every time I try to close the first screen(where it compares (with the little green lights).. it times out and I cant close it...I try to get to other screens and that first one wont let me... it should say OK at the bottom...but a box pops up that says it might mess up something or it says cancel... if I say cancel the same screen stays there....its doing real good with the new O2 and the learn turned on... it doesnt want to drop down to idle(1000 rpm).. tries to stay at 1300 rpm..... any help guys on that first page...(global)
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2095940
06/21/16 11:33 PM
06/21/16 11:33 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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To get your laptop in sync with the ecu you'll selet get from ecu. How do you get that page to close... cant do anything till that page closes.. I did get it to say OK once and I was watching the gauge page for the O2 change.. and one other question... do you select from the ECU first to save it to the computer or to the ECU first thanks Rich Back to the first part..every time I go on line that screen pops up
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2095959
06/22/16 12:07 AM
06/22/16 12:07 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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"Get from ECU" means "getting" the program that's in the ECU to your laptop. You only would chose "Send to ECU" if you had made changes offline, and then want to upload those changes to the ECU. You won't be doing that.
When you click the “USB Link” and are online (Button will say online), a screen should appear that compares the files in the ECU with the file in your laptop. They will not be the same because the ECU has learned. You want to click the "Get from ECU” button at the bottom of this screen. This will send the ECU program to your laptop.
Ok Rich..I will try that tomorrow... its running 90% better now with the new O2 and the learn stage on... the idle seems high yet but I'm hoping that if it learns more the idle will come back down...its about 1200-1300 when it should be 1000.. but it does seem to be dropping slowly..... thanks Edit almost all the time that screen thats comparing... it times out... thats when I get that small might mess up box...the (I forget) but something.. I have a choice.. yes or cancel..cancel does nothing but keep the compare screen open
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/22/16 12:14 AM.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2096006
06/22/16 01:21 AM
06/22/16 01:21 AM
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TRENDZ
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Does your laptop have a native serial port? I have had similar problems with one of my laptops with an actual serial port. Had to manually configure the usb link/com port protocol. My laptop with usb only has never had that issue. Was informed on the holley help forums that reloading the software with the holley usb connected seems to fix most com issues. If you continue to have issues, I suggest completely removing the holley software, and the piggy backed usb/ com software. Then load the newest software and firmware from the holley website (v4). Reload with the usb connected.
High idle speed... see what the idle motor count is. should be below 15. TPS should be "0" If idle count is lower, say "0" and idle is still high, close the throttle plate with the screw and then do tps reset. If its higher than 15 there are more things to check. call me if you get stuck.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2096135
06/22/16 11:05 AM
06/22/16 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,026 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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Closed loop idle has whats been whooping my tail on my MS3X. When it works it works great but It won't always fall into closed loop.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2096146
06/22/16 11:14 AM
06/22/16 11:14 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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Does your laptop have a native serial port? I have had similar problems with one of my laptops with an actual serial port. Had to manually configure the usb link/com port protocol. My laptop with usb only has never had that issue. Was informed on the holley help forums that reloading the software with the holley usb connected seems to fix most com issues. If you continue to have issues, I suggest completely removing the holley software, and the piggy backed usb/ com software. Then load the newest software and firmware from the holley website (v4). Reload with the usb connected.
High idle speed... see what the idle motor count is. should be below 15. TPS should be "0" If idle count is lower, say "0" and idle is still high, close the throttle plate with the screw and then do tps reset. If its higher than 15 there are more things to check. call me if you get stuck. Do you have a direct link for the V4 you can post... I see where some guys are posting it but I dont want to get a corrupted file thanks for the help
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2096176
06/22/16 12:18 PM
06/22/16 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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All the Holley software can be accessed here: https://www.holley.com/support/resources/#Fuel_InjectionSounds like your laptop may have a corrupted software installation. You should first save your current global folder somewhere so it won't be touched. Then completely uninstall the Holley software using the "Control Panel", and remove the Holley folder from "My Documents", and the Holley folder on the "C:Drive" (Program Files, Holley folder). Then install from a fresh download. If you choose to upgrade to V4 you should also read the V4 Overview. IDLE RPM: As TRENDZ said you have to go through the IAC setup procedure. Sounds like your mechanical throttle screw is holding open the plates. Remember you must do a TPS Autoset whenever you change the mechanical throttle settings.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2096183
06/22/16 12:32 PM
06/22/16 12:32 PM
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Romeo MI
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All the Holley software can be accessed here: https://www.holley.com/support/resources/#Fuel_InjectionSounds like your laptop may have a corrupted software installation. You should first save your current global folder somewhere so it won't be touched. Then completely uninstall the Holley software using the "Control Panel", and remove the Holley folder from "My Documents", and the Holley folder on the "C:Drive" (Program Files, Holley folder). Then install from a fresh download. If you choose to upgrade to V4 you should also read the V4 Overview. IDLE RPM: As TRENDZ said you have to go through the IAC setup procedure. Sounds like your mechanical throttle screw is holding open the plates. Remember you must do a TPS Autoset whenever you change the mechanical throttle settings. I will move my one file and delete the holley file and install the V4.... this use to idle right at 1000 rpm... when I first started the learn mode it was down to 800 but I believe that the engine was just that fat.. after reving it a few times and the cloud came out of the pipes it started to lean out and the revs picked up.... I forget where you do the IAC reset. but I guess I can look it up in the help area... I'm getting a little better at finding the different screens now that I have been playing(no changing anything but just looking).. by the way I pulled all of the V2 files straight from the disc that came with the unit
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2096198
06/22/16 01:08 PM
06/22/16 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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IAC vs throttle plate position adjustment:
Timing and idle AF must be correct first. The IAC Position can be found on one of the screens in the data monitor (lower left area). You want the IAC position to be between 5 and 15%. If it is stuck at 0 (the idle RPM is probably above your target idle because too much air is going through the plates), you need to CLOSE the throttle plates until the IAC starts to open (5 to 15%). If the AC position is above 15%, more air than is necessary is being fed through the IAC, so you need to OPEN the throttle plates to adjust.
You must then do TPS Autoset after mechanical throttle changes. Yeah I just got done reading that in the help area thanks... I'll be going out shortly to give it a go and see what happens... when I come back in I will see if I can get the V4 down loaded in my computer... I see that there is a software and hardware parts of this thanks EDIT when I'm out in the shop or even in front of it I cant get any computer(the system wont go that far(router)
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/22/16 01:11 PM.
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2096387
06/22/16 07:55 PM
06/22/16 07:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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IAC vs throttle plate position adjustment:
Timing and idle AF must be correct first. The IAC Position can be found on one of the screens in the data monitor (lower left area). You want the IAC position to be between 5 and 15%. If it is stuck at 0 (the idle RPM is probably above your target idle because too much air is going through the plates), you need to CLOSE the throttle plates until the IAC starts to open (5 to 15%). If the AC position is above 15%, more air than is necessary is being fed through the IAC, so you need to OPEN the throttle plates to adjust.
You must then do TPS Autoset after mechanical throttle changes. Yeah had to reset the IAC .. was at 0.. got the blades set so its at about 9 now then reset the TPS... all done.. idles right at 1000 rpm.. thanks guys... getting use to the different screens now and what to save reading the help section sure helps a lot also
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Re: I Want To Give A BIG THANKS To Mopar Rich
[Re: Twostick]
#2096667
06/23/16 11:09 AM
06/23/16 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Mike if you have a smartphone with a data plan, just activate the hotspot in it and connect your laptop via wifi to it when you're out of range from the house.
Kevin The only reason I wanted to use the laptop was to talk with Rich and Trendz while I had my EFI running on the laptop.. I finally figured it out with their help... I didnt know there were/are way may screens that I could watch/use... to me like it was YEARS ago... I was afraid to press the wrong button and kill everything(back in my early computer days).. plus just reading the help screens a few times.... also I mounted a power inverter in the car just to power any 120v stuff.. that works great also
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