Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2085536
06/03/16 09:36 PM
06/03/16 09:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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If you are only going to do occassional freeway jaunts with limited distance, skip the lock-up as the converters are significantly heavier and will cost you ET time. If you plan on somewhat regular freeway trips and some longer road trips, go for the lock-up. The nice thing about a high quality lock-up converter with the correct stall speed for your application, is that it is like having a 5th gear.
I have a 3200 stall converter in my 200R4 with a triple carbon fiber disc lock-up clutch. It was not an inexpensive converter, but I believe it was worth every penny. The performance with the correct stall combined with the ability to lock it up is awesome. The car would be a bit quicker without the added weight though.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2085615
06/03/16 11:16 PM
06/03/16 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,301 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,301
Benton, IL.
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If you are considering a 518, then the choices on lock-up converters is very limited. Call PTC and talk to them about it BEFORE you pull the trigger.
Master, again and still
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2085704
06/04/16 02:47 AM
06/04/16 02:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872
Pattison Texas
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I have 3200 rpm lock up in my 68 512 charger a 518, I use switches for the OD & lock up, so far its good.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#2085725
06/04/16 06:15 AM
06/04/16 06:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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I can think of no disadvantages to a lock-up convertor, if is there any what are they???
Stu The main disadvantage is that lock-up converters are significantly heavier due to the plates, frictions and springs, which means it takes more power to spin them. More power to spin means less power to launch, and less usable power to launch means slower ET. That is a disadvantage to many folks.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: jbc426]
#2085785
06/04/16 11:42 AM
06/04/16 11:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840 South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
Looking for fun? Keep looking
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Looking for fun? Keep looking
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
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I can think of no disadvantages to a lock-up convertor, if is there any what are they???
Stu The main disadvantage is that lock-up converters are significantly heavier due to the plates, frictions and springs, which means it takes more power to spin them. More power to spin means less power to launch, and less usable power to launch means slower ET. That is a disadvantage to many folks. So if i understand it just in racing applications there a disadvantage then but with normal driving it aids in helping keep the heat down in the convertor. Correct??
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#2085789
06/04/16 11:50 AM
06/04/16 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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"So if i understand it just in racing applications there a disadvantage then but with normal driving it aids in helping keep the heat down in the convertor."
and rpms down at cruising speed. = Better mileage.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#2085835
06/04/16 01:32 PM
06/04/16 01:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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Correct. Modern non-lock-up converters, although very efficient, will generate more heat than the solid connection of a lock-up converter.
Heat is always the enemy of an automatic transmission, so be sure you have an adequate transmission cooler and use the highest quality transmission fluid available. In a serious performance car, change the fluid and filter regularly/annually too.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2086097
06/04/16 11:13 PM
06/04/16 11:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,042 colorado
savoy64
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,042
colorado
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my torque converter rebuilding shop friend sent me out looking for a non lockup 518 out of a dakota as he was building a 6.4 hemi into a 27 chrysler sedan--he said lockup clutch failure is becoming a common rebuild causation---and it saves only 300 rpm.....and modern cars computer turns the lockup off in the tranny temp gets too cool...
Last edited by savoy64; 06/04/16 11:17 PM.
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2086193
06/05/16 03:35 AM
06/05/16 03:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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@jbc426, Your trans set up is exactly what I'm looking into.
@mgoblue9798, a/m converter? Yes, I recommend talking to Lonnie at Extreme Automatics. I went with Precision of New Hampton for the TC, ask for Milt. It's one of their top-shelf units with a 3200 rpm stall, anti-ballooning plates and a triple carbon fiber disc lock-up clutch. The were originally designed to handle the big supercharged diesels.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: savoy64]
#2086195
06/05/16 03:38 AM
06/05/16 03:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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my torque converter rebuilding shop friend sent me out looking for a non lockup 518 out of a dakota as he was building a 6.4 hemi into a 27 chrysler sedan--he said lockup clutch failure is becoming a common rebuild causation---and it saves only 300 rpm.....and modern cars computer turns the lockup off in the tranny temp gets too cool... A lot of people avoid computer controlled transmissions due to the lack of adequate aftermarket programing for the Chrysler units. I went with a 200R4 for many reasons including that it can be wired with a single switch to lock-up only in 4th gear. It drops out when it downshifts or if you flip the switch. Simple, light, takes less power to spin, its very strong and heavy duty when properly built.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: 2ndopp]
#2086768
06/06/16 12:11 AM
06/06/16 12:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
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I used a Reid bellhousing. It's SFI rated, but I did have to trim off a small section to fit my headers.
I also went with the Stage 2 and adapter. If you plan on running lower gears than 3.91's with a lot of power, make sure you calculate your driveshaft's critical speed.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Recommendation: lock up or non-lock up?
[Re: jbc426]
#2087371
06/06/16 10:31 PM
06/06/16 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 78 AZ
2ndopp
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 78
AZ
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Thanks for all the great advice. Any recommendations if I upgrade the drive shaft? For others doing similar projects, here are two drive shaft critical rpm calculators: http://www2.dana.com/expert/wc.dll?hvtss~decrits~warn1 http://www.wallaceracing.com/driveshaftspeed.htm
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