So, I'm setting up my new Lokar throttle and kickdown cable setup.

I am reading conflicting information on whether the kickdown lever on the transmission should be completely forward at idle. Some guys put light return springs on them to hold them forward at idle. This is also how the 1971 factory service training says to set the rods.

However, I am also ready different information (Hot Rod, A&A) that says the lever should NOT be fully forward at idle.

Soooo.....any ideas, thoughts opinions?

I would follow the FSM instructions.

I've always heard that you want the shaft to move immediately with any throttle movement so yes, you want it all the way forward.

Is this Locar or stock?

OK, here's my standard Lokar speech:

The problem with the Lokar is that it's generic even when advertised to fit a Mopar because of the different lengths of the transmission lever.

You need to measure the full travel of the carb lever where the cable attaches and then measure the full travel of the transmission lever where the cable attaches; it usually won't be the same so you need to drill a new hole in the transmission lever so that the full travel of both levers is the same. Also, there should be a spring pulling the transmission lever forward.

It isn't necessary for the trans lever to be full back at WOT but be sure that WOT under the hood is the same as WOT at the pedal...misadjusted throttle linkage will prevent the carb from going wide open when the pedal is matted and that, in turn, will prevent the trans lever from going back enough to provide kickdown.

Remove the cable from the carb and measure how far the hole in the throttle lever moves from idle to WOT. Then measure how far the hole in the trans lever moves from full forward to full back. The movement of the trans lever will likely be more than the carb lever so find the spot on the trans lever that matches the travel of the carb lever and drill there.

It's unlikely that the trans lever will return to the full forward position without a spring assist.

For the THROTTLE PRESSURE LINKAGE (not kickdown linkage) on my 69 440 Charger, I modified a TV cable and lever off of a 5.2/5.9 Magnum. Works flawlessly, cost me $8, and a thousand times better than the stupid 3-piece garbage that came on these cars. Much cleaner too and can be adjusted in 10 seconds if need be

I think the Stock and Lokar setup only moves the KD lever rearward and allows slack in the linkage when at idle.
When I received my Lokar kickdown, the cable sheath was too long to work correctly, so I had to remove the inner cable and cut the outer sheath shorter to get the correct amount of movement in the cable.

I need to look at that the next time we meet!

Sure thing Bob! It's definitely the way to go

Very helpful information.
Thanks for this John.
There was a question about this on another site.
I hope you don't mind I shared your wisdom there.
Also put it into my data base for my own use.

So to summarize the answer to the original question (I am installing the Lokar unit myself), this is what I gathered from all of the replies above.

1. Use the special Mopar tool or a spring to keep light forward pressure on the kick down lever and adjust the cable at the throttle end with no slack at idle.

2. Ensure that when the kick-down linkage is in the WOT position, is does not limit/bind the throttle plates from reaching the WOT position. If it does, drill a new hole in the kick-down lever.

Did I get this right, or did I miss a step?
thanks
Vic

i am NOT a fan of the lokar setup. with that said, the step you need to take is to duplicate the brackets in material that is at least twice as thick and add gussets to them so they do not bend in use. re-do the carb mounting bracket so it stays in proper position. the "grub screw" they use to keep the bracket in its proper position is almost impossible to keep tight even with locktite. i have worked on/tried to adjust/keep properly adjusted over a dozen of these setups over the years, and all but one guy switched back to the factory linkage. the cable used is worse than bicycle brake cable when it comes to stretching. this deal may work on GM transmissions, but i have had absolutely no luck at all on torqueflights. others may say they have used it on applications when space was a premium and it worked out, but if it were me and i needed something like that, i would look at a late model A500 or A518 setup that used a cable linkage and use it instead of that lokar deal. just my experiences. i would spend my $100 bill elsewhere.

Well I already bought it. I wanted know if there were any tips beyond the OEM instructions (like the tips John _Kunkel was mentioning, I wanted to make sure I got it right).

There are a dozen threads on this board on the shortcomings of the Lokar setup. John Kunkel is the resident expert on TF transmissions. I take what he says as gospel. Having read all of those threads in the past, I will never buy a Lokar. Just my opinion.
It is not like they are the only solution.
For some it is too late and I do not want to rankle those who have bought them. I only post this to emphasize there are alternatives.
Craig

John Kunkel is the resident expert on TF transmissions.

Just out of curiosity, why do so many people insist on calling it "kickdown linkage"? It obviously controls so much more, such as line pressure, upshift points and firmness, and downshift points, etc. I just don't understand it. We're not running TH350s around here.

Here's my 5.2/5.9 Magnum TV cable that replaced my clunky 3-piece throttle pressure linkage setup. Just had to make a small bracket for the arm of the carb, and weld it to the throttle cable bracket. Also used the Magnum TV lever and mounted the cable to the factory ear on the 727, just as it was on the 46RE it came off of

and if a cable TPL[kickdown] is desired or wanted, THIS is the setup to use ! toss the others in the trash [or swap meet pile] where they belong.

I got rid of the 1-piece or 3-piece TP linkage setup on every car I've ever had. I've been using the Magnum TV cable setup on everything since the late 90s. It's the only way to go. I agree though, put the Lokar stuff in the trash where it belongs

Monkey hear, monkey repeat. On many brand x's the linkage/cable is only used to force a downshift (kickdown) so the unknowing assume it's the same on Mopars.

I shouln't complain, that thinking brought me a lot of business.

following as will need this info soon

How many of you have checked adjusted the movement on the inside of the transmission on the valve body? Mine needed adjustment there also which I did when I had the pan off.

Never understood why anyone would want to change from the stock arrangement. It's worked for me over the past 45 years. You just have to follow the instructions on how to adjust the throttle linkage in the FSM for your car. I guess to each his own.

You would understand if you replaced the stock engine and the linkage would not even connect let alone adjust. Not all of our cars are the same as they came from the factory.
Craig

Yeah, mine came back like this after swapping the 2-bbl BBD for a 4-bbl:





After considering my options I've decided to go for the Bouchillon Performance option.

Here's the important part that everyone leaves out. Once you've adjusted/modified the Lokar linkage and lever for the correct arc travel distance as the throttle moves from idle to WOT, it's time to adjust the cable for proper main line pressure rise upon throttle opening.

So, you've got the hole drilled in the lever. You've figured out the throttle bracket sweep distance and the correct detent lever sweep distance. Now, attach a pressure gauge to the line pressure port, second one back on the right.
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/auto/19.html
Now, at hot idle adjust the cable so pressure rises, off base pressure, just as you tip into the throttle, in gear. Don't run yourself over.

A cable too tight and it'll have a hard garage shift, late/rough upshifts, and an early passing gear down shift with a delayed upshift.

A cable too loose and you'll get early upshifts, no passing gear downshift, and possible slipping that'll destroy the transmission.

There is only one correct adjustment position for the cable and only one correct lever to throttle travel ratio. All other adjustments are done elsewhere on the transmission. Shift points are a function of the governor, and line pressure is properly adjusted on the valve body.

Good luck

Even using the FACTORY setup , for instance my 1 piece kickdown rod/linkage on my 71 Bee


Like the initial poster says , pulled forward all the way on the kickdown lever down on the trans per Chrysler tech using a spring and a tool straight from all the manuals and adjust from there by the carb linkage or how Hotrod and A & A Trans mention this with the kickdown lever down by the trans


http://www.hotrod.com/articles/the-lowdown-on-stock-torqueflite-kick-down-linkage/

As the kick-down linkage/cable pushes the kick-down lever rearward, it increases line pressure inside the trans and initiates a downshift. “If you adjust the cable so the lever is at the front of its travel range at idle, the line pressure will not increase properly as the throttle increases,” Jason Muckala of Motech Performance explains. “This makes the trans shift too early, and it can cause the clutches to slip and destroy the transmission. I’ve seen people install springs to hold the lever forward, but it’s not supposed to stay in that position at idle.” This photo shows the lever full forward; in this portion of the lever’s arc you can feel no pushback from the lever, an indication that no increase in line pressure is occurring.




Somewhere in this range of the lever’s arc, you can feel a slight resistance from the lever’s internal spring. This is where the line pressure begins to rise, ultimately causing a downshift. Properly dialing in the lever’s range of motion is critical to shift performance and transmission longevity. Says Jason:

“For the FIRST HALF OF IT'S TRAVEL RANGE, there is very little resistance and the LEVER DOES NOTHING. AT THE HALFWAY POINT, you can feel where it starts to hit the valve inside the trans, AND THATS'S THE POSITION THE LEVER MUST BE IN AT IDLE.”



At WOT, the kick-down lever should be positioned at the end of its range of travel. This ensures accurate shift points and a proper increase in line pressure. Factory kick-down linkage setups can create scenarios where the kick-down lever will not move all the way back at WOT, or scenarios where the lever moves all the way back and hits a hard stop before WOT. Now you can begin to understand why it’s important for the bellcrank on the throttle shaft to move in perfect sync with the kickdown lever on the trans in a 1:1 ratio.

i'm not a fan of the lokar cable setup. i have had to re-work, and mostly replace that setup with the factory style linkage many times. the main gripes i have are the cheesey mounting brackets that bend very easily, and the tiny, bicycle cable used that stretches easily. both of these item insures that the adjustments never stay where they belong. i think the effort to procure the correct factory parts will make you happy in the long run. don't get me wrong, as others have had good luck. but there are also others here that agree with my experiences.

Anyway you could show a picture of the transmission hookup?? Nice setup!! I have a 67 383 727 TF with the stock setup and would like to change it to your setup.

Thanks!!
Any part number for the TV cable??

that would be the only correct cable type setup to consider using in my opinion. just make sure of the geometry correctness at the carb linkage connection and at the transmission lever.

would this one work??

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/prod...52104030AB.html

little hard to see.
you have to get the linkage parts off a donor truck or van.
there are 2 sets in the pic.
Since there appeared to be 2 different kinds, I didn't want to have to go back, so I got both.
I used the shorter set.

one loads from the top the other loads from the bottom of the linkage.

This is one of several places I disagree with the author. Of course there's dead travel in the lever on the bench with no pressure on the internal valves, but when the engine is running there's pressure pushing on the valves and the lever. The fact that properly adjusted factory linkage places the lever full forward at idle, and the fact that very little throttle input will cause the trans to upshift, proves that lever travel of way less then "half point" initiates a pressure rise.





Another point of disagreement; in many cases when the linkage/cable is adjusted so that the lever is full back at WOT, the light-throttle upshifts will be late and at WOT the trans might not upshift at all (road speed shift point exceeds engine rpm capability).

Bottom line, any anomalies when using the factory linkage are user-induced...plain and simple, the linkage works when not worn out, dicked with or mismatched parts are in place.

I have a few pieces worn out sort of speak

That's why I pulled up another old thread after working on my 71 Bee

The pivot holes are elongated on my 1971 one piece kickdown adjustment

i did miss the picture of your setup!