Piston Search
#2041164
03/29/16 01:58 PM
03/29/16 01:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 21 SC
DropTrooperZim
OP
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OP
member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 21
SC
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Hey all.
First time rebuilding an engine and I am doing it on an extremely tight budget. Years ago I purchased a 66 Coronet body and a 426 street wedge from a yard and just now have the garage to work on them. I’m focusing on getting the engine running, not for drag or top performance, just running to ride/play with. The engine was purchased dis-assembled with most of the major parts included (block, heads, intake and exhaust manifold, old Holley carb, crank, cams, pistons, timing chain, old distributor...). I’m in the process of cleaning the engine and checking for cracks/wear&tear and am not planning on getting anything milled/honed/bored. I will be getting new gaskets and all new bolts to be on the safe side. Looking over the pistons I noticed two of them are cracked with chunks of metal missing between the piston rings and are surely not usable.
So my question is, can I purchase only two stand alone pistons to match the set I already have and if so, where do I look? I know purchasing a whole new set of pistons is pricey and a mis-matched set can throw everything off from balance to head spacing. All the connecting rods and bearings appear to be good. The cast number on the piston reads “2465533”. Cast number on the block is "2532230" and the cast number on the head is "2843906".
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2041201
03/29/16 02:49 PM
03/29/16 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
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You have to take precision measurements of the bores before you do anything. They need to be measured to the .001" in the top, bottom, and middle. Each bore must be the same front to back and side to side. That's the only way to know if the holes are really round.
Chances are good that you will have slightly oval shaped holes and a ridge around the top.
Only after you have confirmed the bore measurements can you order pistons.
426W pistons are neither cheap nor readily available. Dig around and find prices and part numbers. Be sure to punch the numbers into Amazon to check for better prices.
I'm doing the same thing for my Imperial. Luckily, it has a 440 and the pistons are readily available.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2041827
03/30/16 12:00 PM
03/30/16 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,686 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,686
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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What you have is going to cost way too much to get running. 426 wedge parts are worth money. I would recommend selling what you have for enough money to buy a running 440.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2041895
03/30/16 01:17 PM
03/30/16 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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A Banana Republic near you.
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That engine you have is using 906 heads , open chamber , the small bore of the 426 wedge is hard enough to build compression with , now you have even lower compression with those open chamber heads and your deep in the hole pistons . A 383 piston is probably fairly close to the CH of the stock 426 piston.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2042893
03/31/16 07:03 PM
03/31/16 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,354 Aurora, Oh.
max_maniac
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,354
Aurora, Oh.
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Ill run the micrometer through the cylinder. If they only have a ridge then I can ream it out but I would still be left with the problem of finding two replacement pistons.
So the best thing to do would be bore and hone the cylinders and drop in a "new" set of pistons? Maybe 440 pistons? Is this for a stock bore 426 wedge? Flat top pistons? If so I have a set of 8 pistons # 2406395 that came out of a standard bore 1964 426 wedge.
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084545
06/02/16 11:14 AM
06/02/16 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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A Banana Republic near you.
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If I choose to machine the block, how much larger of a piston can I drop in?
What factors to I have to take into account if I upgrade the pistons? Do I need to get a new crank, etc...? You need to have the block sonic checked before you even consider trying to overbore it large enough to fit a 440 piston. What is the goal of this engine ? I don't know if you said that , I didn't go back to reread your original post.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084548
06/02/16 11:18 AM
06/02/16 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Your questions reveal some basic misconceptions. Pistons do not "drop in."
New pistons and block go to the machinist so the bores can be sized to the pistons. If you are not sure what size, get the block to the machinist first to get the necessary oversize figured out.
Next, boring to increase engine size is not profitable in Mopar engines, because casting quality (core shift) varied substantially in all the years. More to the point, a sonic check is very much what should come first to see what cylinder walls your block has. Boring the 426 to 440 size is something I'd never recommend.
The corollary to this is that stroking a B/RB is so easy and can be done for large displacement increases.
Now on to the bores. If there is a ridge there is almost certainly wear in the bores. Reaming the ridge is a very hazardous operation for the novice. It is just too easy to cut too deeply into the cylinder to the area where rings need to seat. The area of greatest wear in the cylinder is where the rings are loaded the highest, at the upper end of the cylinder.
If you want to keep the standard bore and not mess with the cylinders then the used set mentioned above is a good choice.
Imho you'd be best off having a new set of pistons made by Autotec. Then they can have the compression height, valve notches, any dome, etc exactly to optimum.
R.
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084620
06/02/16 02:03 PM
06/02/16 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
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Yea, Im trying to find the best bang for my buck in local machine shops to do the sonic, machine and honing.
I want to keep the engine stock as much as possible for cruising. But if I have to replace the pistons b/c I have have two broken ones then I mind as well upgrade the displacement for street. Not looking for bracket, drag or any peak high octane performance. Street performance is sufficient. Now that I read your original post ... You need to measure your bores for taper and roundness before you can sensibly move forward.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084626
06/02/16 02:19 PM
06/02/16 02:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Mopar made three different 426 Wedge motors in 1964, a 365 HP street wedge,(came with flat top cast pistons) a 415 HP Max Wedge and a 445 HP Max Wedge that came with domed forged pistons. They stop making the the 426 M.W. motors in either late February or early March and started putting the 426 Race Hemi motors in the last Dodge and Plymouth they had firm orders on for the M.W. motors. My point is you do not want to use the forged high compression pistons in a used block with a ridge on the top of the cylinders. They offered the street wedge in both 1964 and 1965 and stop making the 426 wedge blocks for passenger cars after the end of production run in 1965. They alledgly made a 426W race block later for NASCAR application, never confirmed one way or the other by Mopar I had a 1965 street wedge block bored to 4.320(stock 440 bore size) as it was bored to 4.310 already and had some taper in the cylinders, that motor ended up with a 4.25 stroke crankshaft and a set of Eagle 7.100 long forged H beam steel rods with a set of custom Ross piston to lower the compression down to 9.5 to 1 to run California pump gas with iron heads back in 2001 or so It ran fine on pump gas and made close to 500 HP on the DTS engine dyno in Ontario, CA ran by Vrbancic Bros. I didn't want to build that motor as it had two external freeze cracks in it and a casting flaw in the bottom of # 4 cylinder that had been seeping water into the crankcase since day one The customer insisted on fixing and using it as he had a 1965 Plymouth Satelite 426 street wedge motor car and that block casting date was proper for his cars scheduled production date As already mentioned your bare block may be worth more than a complete decent running 440 to a restorer or restoration shop Good luck on your project, keep us informed on what you do please
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/02/16 02:27 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: NANKET]
#2084682
06/02/16 04:30 PM
06/02/16 04:30 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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Up until Monday afternoon, I had a 1964 HP stamped 413 engine on a stand in my shop. It appeared to be a 52 year old virgin. It had 516 heads on it, the block did not appear to be cracked in the valley and it turned over easily. It had been left on an engine stand in a corner of the shop 2 years ago by the son of the previous homeowner. One of my neighbors called and wanted it for a Duster drag project he has started. So I called the owner of the engine, he said he would not come up from California to reclaim it and therefore it was mine. I already have a Cab Burge built 440 race engine and a backup '77 440 truck block, so the only reason I would want it was for the steel crank. So I gave it to my neighbor, stand and all.
Find yourself a running 440 to build from a truck or motorhome and leave the 426 to someone that needs a block to build for a class racer.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084694
06/02/16 04:51 PM
06/02/16 04:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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Yeah.. sell it and get a 440. Pistons are gonna be the big problem (aside from custom).
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084760
06/02/16 06:45 PM
06/02/16 06:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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One thing to keep in mind is that the 426 bore size is 4.250 stock, the 440 are 4.320, .070 bigger than the 426 bore, that is only .035 per side How thick do you think the ring ridge is? Maybe boring that block to 440 stock size and buying a set of stock 440 bore 6 pak pistons to use with your 906 heads may be a viable option to build a nice relaible street cruiser that will still put a smile on your face when you floor it After all, there are some things a man can never have to much of, fun, money, traction and horse power
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/02/16 06:46 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Piston Search
[Re: DropTrooperZim]
#2084910
06/02/16 11:22 PM
06/02/16 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Another thing that nobody brought up that might be a problem. You have 2 pistons that have broken ring lands, broken ring lands are caused by detnation. It would be surprising that only 2 pistons were affected. Without a magnaflux crack check your other pistons also could be junk. And on the overbore to .070 over? Your money but I wouldn't do it. Sell your good block for enough money to buy a rebuilt 440.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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