E85 talk?
#2042764
03/31/16 03:53 PM
03/31/16 03:53 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Started new E-85 topic from the "EFI for stock 440" thread. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...440.html#UNREADAnyhow, Here is what I was thinking: In theory, comparing 1000 cfm air flow (my carb size) on E-85 and Gasoline. The data listed was just from a quick internet search, but this these are the values I found for the various conversions: A pound of air is about 13.15 cubic/feet (normal temp/sea-level conditions?) so 1000 cfm would be about 76.0456 pounds of air a minute? I divided that by the air/fuel ratio to get pounds of fuel/minute using the 116090 for gas and 84250 for E-85? This gave me 5.173 pounds of fuel/minute on gasoline, and 7.839 pounds on E-85. Converting the pounds to gallons using 6.2 pounds/gallon gasoline and 6.59 for E-85 I get 0.834 gallon of gas and 1.189 gallons E-85? I then multiplied the gallons of fuel by their BTU and got 96,863 BTU (per minute) on Gasoline, and 100,227 BTU on E-85? So it looks like the E-85 has about 3.3% more BTU for an equal amount of airflow? This ignores the octane and cooling effects. I have read that E-85 is supposed to be about 5% more power overall?
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2042769
03/31/16 04:01 PM
03/31/16 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,069 Irving, TX
feets
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Senior Management
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Irving, TX
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You're missing out on mechanical efficiencies. Compression and other engine bits that change to optimize for a specific fuel will alter the efficiency of the engine.
What got you so interested in air volume instead of fuel?
*edit* Forgot you were in CO. Density will throw a wrench in things too. Pumping losses, etc.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2042815
03/31/16 05:16 PM
03/31/16 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,069 Irving, TX
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Irving, TX
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If you feel limited by a 1050 carb you must have a mighty impressive engine.
Guys are going plenty fast on less carb.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: feets]
#2042826
03/31/16 05:31 PM
03/31/16 05:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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If you feel limited by a 1050 carb you must have a mighty impressive engine.
Guys are going plenty fast on less carb. The altitude here is killing me... It's the 499" stroked 400 with the Hughes CNC M/W heads, and 0.726" lift solid roller. I think either 272 or 274 @ 0.050" intake duration, a bit more on the exhaust. Been awhile since I looked at the spec card. No power adders, I'm sure nitrous or forced induction would help. Most of the non MOPARS I race are running some sort of power adder.
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#2042831
03/31/16 05:34 PM
03/31/16 05:34 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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It's in the works... Switching out the Edelbrock XT EFI computer on the Convertible with a FAST XFI 2.0 box, so I won't need the MTX Wideband O2 currently in the Coronet. It will be in the Charger later this year.
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2042837
03/31/16 05:38 PM
03/31/16 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,069 Irving, TX
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Tuning what you've got will likely make up the difference. I imagine the 1050 will feed your engine just fine even with the density issue.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2042843
03/31/16 05:48 PM
03/31/16 05:48 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
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Lost in Time
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Just ran a 500" 440 on the dyno, similar cam, 915 heads. It made 650 up on e85 and 635 on race gas with 18 ft lb more tq. on e85.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: feets]
#2042870
03/31/16 06:31 PM
03/31/16 06:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Tuning what you've got will likely make up the difference. I imagine the 1050 will feed your engine just fine even with the density issue. I think the carb size is Ok also. Really at this point I'm already making more power than I can hook up with 27x 10.5 ET Radials and a near stock suspension on a 4,150# car. I still need to put a roll bar in the car too, and maybe change out the 45-year old seat belts.
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2042976
03/31/16 09:18 PM
03/31/16 09:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
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Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I divided that by the air/fuel ratio to get pounds of fuel/minute using the 116090 for gas and 84250 for E-85?
Using the BTU numbers to get pounds of fuel a minute? I think the math is off. E85 has 2/3's the energy content of gasoline, so you'd need to burn more than your calc's should to equal the gasoline hp levels, all else being the same.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2043003
03/31/16 09:51 PM
03/31/16 09:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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E85 has 2/3's the energy content of gasoline, so you'd need to burn more than your calc's should to equal the gasoline hp levels, all else being the same.
Wrong. E85 SE (specific energy) is 9825 and E0 gasoline SE is 7891.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#2043037
03/31/16 10:21 PM
03/31/16 10:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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E85 has 2/3's the energy content of gasoline, so you'd need to burn more than your calc's should to equal the gasoline hp levels, all else being the same.
Wrong. E85 SE (specific energy) is 9825 and E0 gasoline SE is 7891. Don't know where you got your statement from, I'm thinking some orifice. http://www.energyalmanac.ca.gov/transportation/gge.html
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2043118
03/31/16 11:10 PM
03/31/16 11:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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E85 has 2/3's the energy content of gasoline, so you'd need to burn more than your calc's should to equal the gasoline hp levels, all else being the same.
Wrong. E85 SE (specific energy) is 9825 and E0 gasoline SE is 7891. Don't know where you got your statement from, I'm thinking some orifice. http://www.energyalmanac.ca.gov/transportation/gge.html Heat (energy) value by the air/fuel ratio (Btu/lb ÷ A/F). That ain't any ortifice talking, just mathematics and science.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: E85 talk?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2043131
03/31/16 11:22 PM
03/31/16 11:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,284 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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I've dyno the same motor on both 110 octane race gas and local pump E85 that tested to be E90. That motor, after jetting for best power for both carbs. and fuel lost 12 HP(687 on gas to 675HP on E90) at 7000 RPM and gained 22 ft lbs of torque at the same peark torquue RPM) by switching to the E90 The E85 carb(Holley 1150 CFM Dominator converted by AJ Castelinin on here) needed leaning down 3 jets sizes to get best power as I was testing in Klamath Falls , OR at 4399 Ft in the spring, the Holley #9375 non HP 1050 CFM Dominator carb. didn't need jet changes, it like the stock jetting on that fuel that day with that weather BTW, my new car on E85 is way more consistent from morning to late afternoon now than the other race cars where on race or pump gas IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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