400/451 or 440/493?
#2036811
03/22/16 10:40 PM
03/22/16 10:40 PM
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Posts: 57 GA
Gerald l
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I talked to an engine builder who quoted me a fairly good price on a 440/493 motor. I asked him about a 400/451 and he said that'll be a little more. Everywhere I look the 451 combo seems like the holy grail of stroker motors haha. I know the 440 would be a monster because of the obvious more displacement.
Last edited by Gerald l; 03/22/16 10:49 PM.
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2036819
03/22/16 10:49 PM
03/22/16 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
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It can depend on what you plan to use the car for. For all out racing car the 400 is the strongest in the crank webbing area and the 400 has the largest bore so many like to use it. For a street car that may get raced every now and then like I do the 440 should hold up fine up to about 650 hp. I use the 440 block for my 493 build and one reason was also because the 440 raised block has a better intake selection also and I knew most of the time my car is just street driven and not run hard. Mine is around 600 flywheel hp and its been in my car since 2011 with no problems at all. You just need to weigh out your options of how you plan to use the car as the 440 will hold up fine up to so much hp (around 650) but over that the stronger 400 is the better choice as long as it takes the intake you plan to use. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/22/16 10:50 PM.
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2036850
03/22/16 11:27 PM
03/22/16 11:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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[quote=]I talked to an engine builder who quoted me a fairly good price on a 440/493 motor. I know the 440 would be a monster because of the obvious more displacement. [/quote] (1) a good price (2) 50 more cubes. if everything checked out I would absolutely go with the RB. EDIT that is what I was gonna add, what Andy said: the height of the "V" is roughly ~3/4 taller out at a 45 angle on the RB than the B so if it is setup up for a B now, the RB would kick the headers/ex up that much which may or may not make a fitment prob and the alt/ps would be slightly different but those would be easy to work around, that would be the main thing that would make me possibly want to go with the B & I believe most if not all RB's weigh a bit more otherwise I'd definitely want the 493 cubes in there. You're talking a thousands of dollars purchase, be SURE to check things out head to toe
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/23/16 12:02 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2036961
03/23/16 03:58 AM
03/23/16 03:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Yeah I don't plan on hitting the track. At least no time soon. Intakes shouldn't be a problem. Im planning on running an eddy rpm. I like the fact that the 400 is stronger also. I've built and raced a lot of pump gas B and RB stroker motors. On your deal using the 400 block I would look at using a 4.250 stroke crank kit with BB Chevy rods sizes(2.200) in the 400 block with a decent set of heads and matching cam This combination makes between 505 and 512 C.I., the longer stroke will out pull and out rev the shorter stroke cranks with the stock Mopar rod journal sizes IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: GY3]
#2037134
03/23/16 01:58 PM
03/23/16 01:58 PM
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Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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Once again, listen to your Uncle Cab.
20 years ago the 451 was the Holy Grail because 400 blocks were nearly free. But it is, in reality, only another way to build a 440. Yes, by using aftermarket parts you can trim the bobweight quite a bit, but you could also do that on any 440. So don't waste your time on a 451.
If you're just going to build a 440, build the 440.
The fun comes in when you get stroke out to 4.250". This engine has become the most popular thing to do with a 400 block. And you get 511 cubic inches, which is 60 cubic inches over the 451. That's with a 4.375 bore, which is becoming the standard size for this motor.
Also, do yourself a favor and use only the big block chevy 2.200" rod journal and 0.990 wristpin sizes. These are pretty much standard for building strokers. The Chrysler s1zes will actually limit your choices.
And sonic check any block before you invest in it. Chrysler casting quality was not so good.
Good Luck!
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 03/23/16 02:00 PM.
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: topside]
#2037517
03/23/16 11:47 PM
03/23/16 11:47 PM
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Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
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Personally, I like the 400 block as it leaves more room in the engine compartment and for all the world a 500" low-deck looks like a 383; guess that's the old secretive downplayer gene in me. My last 2 BBMs were 440 blocks in early B bodies, and they were a pain to work on on the right side.
Another thing I like about the 400 block is the bigger cylinders help unshroud the valves/flow a bit.
Your situation may well differ, and it's just my opinion. Next BB I want to build would look like a stock 383 Road Runner but lays down 11s through mufflers... Shouldn't be hard to do. A low deck 470 with Stealth heads and a Performer RPM would do the trick. Squirt everything with factory engine paint and a lot of people won't know it isn't stock. The HP manifolds will easily support enough power to run 11's, the key is getting the correct cam and compression. A Holley will work or run a 800 cfm Eddy carb for more of the stealth look. You can easily make 550 hp with a setup like that and it will idle smooth and run on pump gas. That is enough power to run low 11's if the car isn't a complete tank and it can hook up.
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2037571
03/24/16 01:08 AM
03/24/16 01:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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The 470 is definitely grabbing my attention. Offset grinding a regular 440 steel crank will get you 470 cubes then you can peruse Andys' and the magazines' builds are good fodder. If you stay Mopar you only need some 440 rods then the KB pistons are the only real expense as far as the short block. Have your shop turn the counterweights to 7.250 when they turn the mains down to the 400 size then it'll go back to em later for balancing
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2037593
03/24/16 01:33 AM
03/24/16 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
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The 470 is definitely grabbing my attention. Mopar magazine even has a 2 part article on a 470 their building with trick flows. It is now going to become a three part article. I have some intake and carb testing to do for part three.
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: topside]
#2037682
03/24/16 10:56 AM
03/24/16 10:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,689 Wichita
GY3
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Personally, I like the 400 block as it leaves more room in the engine compartment and for all the world a 500" low-deck looks like a 383; guess that's the old secretive downplayer gene in me. My last 2 BBMs were 440 blocks in early B bodies, and they were a pain to work on on the right side.
Another thing I like about the 400 block is the bigger cylinders help unshroud the valves/flow a bit.
Your situation may well differ, and it's just my opinion. Next BB I want to build would look like a stock 383 Road Runner but lays down 11s through mufflers... My 505 has been painted up to look like a stock motor. With the Stealth head it fools a lot of people. I tell them it's an RV 440 with a cam and headers that I gave a nice paintjob. Mine ran easy 11's at the track first time out on pump gas, through the mufflers, 3.55 gears and on street tires. I drive it everywhere. I'd love to do up an early B body 4 door with a low deck block and make it all dirty and crusty looking under the hood. Tell everyone it's a 361. Dirt and rust blowing out behind it as you trip the beams with a high 10...
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Re: 400/451 or 440/493?
[Re: Gerald l]
#2037811
03/24/16 03:13 PM
03/24/16 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 57 GA
Gerald l
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What do you all think of a 383/450 are there any disadvantages to that? Sorry for all the newbie questions, this is my first Mopar and my head is spinning on which direction to go. A 383 is what's in my b body now.
Last edited by Gerald l; 03/24/16 03:16 PM.
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