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Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help #197352
01/18/09 06:08 PM
01/18/09 06:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,503
NJ
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440challenger Offline OP
master
440challenger  Offline OP
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NJ
Well with the economy how it is, I cant muster up the money to build the healthy 440 I had planend so i set that block and heads aside.

I have a 77 440 motor that i dissasembled with 50k miles.I'm going to hone it, clean the pistons up and re-ring /new bearings etc.

I have a set of fresh 516 heads. Will these work good? I'm going to be using stock rockers,double roller t chain and a hydrualic cam.

I am torn between what cam to go with and i was wondering if the masters can chime in with their opinions. The motor is going in a 73 cuda which will be a street cruizer but I want it to get out of its own way. gears will be 3.23-3.55 with an auto trans. I want the car to have a nice healthy lope and work good with my engine combo.

Open to suggestions and opinions. THANKS!!!

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197353
01/18/09 06:44 PM
01/18/09 06:44 PM
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Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
A hughes whip lash cam should work real nice and yes I would use the 516 heads if I had them sitting around ready to go. A lunati Voo-Doo or comp XE cam would be good also. Something in about the 220@.050 lift range would be about right. Those heads don't flow great so getting the valves open as fast as possible should help get it flowing at it's peak sooner and longer.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197354
01/18/09 08:34 PM
01/18/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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For sure stay at 224* @ 050 or lower on the intake side. While everyone wants a nice lope, lope = overlap = compression bleed off = bad for a low comp smogger 440.

See here for some inspiration:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=

With only a 3.23 gear you don't want to go overboard with duration, probably not more than 220, with a 3.55 you could go up to around 224. You can run a bigger cam but then a quality built torq converter built to flash to 4000+ like a PTC or Dynamic is a MUST.

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #197355
01/18/09 08:43 PM
01/18/09 08:43 PM
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Posts: 4,503
NJ
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440challenger Offline OP
master
440challenger  Offline OP
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NJ
good info so far and thanks for that great link!!

I have a fresh set of 906 heads also... Should i use the 906's or 516's?

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197356
01/18/09 09:42 PM
01/18/09 09:42 PM
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Posts: 1,457
oklahoma
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forphorty Offline
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oklahoma

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: forphorty] #197357
01/18/09 09:55 PM
01/18/09 09:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,140
Central NC
gch Offline
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Central NC
I would use the 906 heads and have them angle milled to 75cc to help get your compression up.I would be conservative on the cam with your lower compression.Something like 218 @ .050 on the intake side and 224 on the exhaust.I believe their is a voodoo cam close to that with decent lift.Build it for torue and throttle response and you will be much happier.Big lumpy cams sound great but you don't have the supporting cast to make it work.

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197358
01/18/09 10:58 PM
01/18/09 10:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 576
Texas
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ChevyTS Offline
mopar
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Texas
Summit 224 234 465 488 with a 114 lda. Works great and is only about 100 bucks with lifters.


T & K Performance
Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: ChevyTS] #197359
01/18/09 11:11 PM
01/18/09 11:11 PM
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Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
I will go against the flow and say 516s. If you install the bigger valves they flow almost the same as a 906 and you also get more compression and if you get flat top pistons at zero deck you can get some quench that helps HP TQ and MPG.

Over lap does not affect cylinder preasure as much as the late intake closeing point on a long duration cam but it will make it lope more at idle. The whiplash cams are desighned with tight overlap angles or LSA to make them lope and short duration to get the intake valve closed sooner and build cylinder preasure with low compression, they have very fast rates of lift to open the valve faster to the peak flow area of the valve lift.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: HotRodDave] #197360
01/19/09 09:43 AM
01/19/09 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
for a cam, I'd look at a lunati voodoo 60302 or 60303.

heads, 906 will flow better, 516's will help compression. I'd use whichever ones are in better shape.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197361
01/19/09 10:16 AM
01/19/09 10:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Thise closed chamber heads will help w/ compression. I'd also look for a used dual plane intake. A CH4B would be ideal. Also try and snag a used pair of headers or you can buy Summit brand for $129 or so. While you're on the phone w/ then get a t-chain set, and the 488 cam lifter set. That should wake the 77 up and w/ 3.55's you should have a pretty strong runner.

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: Mr.Yuck] #197362
01/19/09 07:54 PM
01/19/09 07:54 PM
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Posts: 4,503
NJ
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440challenger Offline OP
master
440challenger  Offline OP
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Well just placed my order. 500$ for everything cant beat that. cant wait to start the build. parts will be here thursday, but i have to wait for the flexxhone to get here friday. i'll keep you guys updated!!

BTW, whats a good hemi orange engine paint that you guys use when you paint the valve covers,block etc. I dont wanna go the spray bomb route. Eastwood?

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197363
01/19/09 11:38 PM
01/19/09 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Brookeville, Md
well what did ya get?

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: Mr.Yuck] #197364
01/20/09 12:15 AM
01/20/09 12:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 551
Great Lakes State
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ONEBADBIRD Offline
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Great Lakes State
Inquiring minds want to know? Jay

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: ONEBADBIRD] #197365
01/20/09 12:20 AM
01/20/09 12:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Inquiring minds want to know? Jay




So we can critisize and ream you out over it. just joking

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #197366
01/20/09 08:33 AM
01/20/09 08:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,503
NJ
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440challenger Offline OP
master
440challenger  Offline OP
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I got the Larger of the summit cam and lifer set. the 224/234-465/488 duration. This will be ran with 516 heads. I have a 3.55 suregrip 3rd member ready to go in.

I also got the standard SP ring set,main bearings,rod bearings, and cam bearings. A true roller t chain set,FP gasket set and valley pan,freeze plug set, mr. gasket lightweight advance springs for the distributor and i think thats it!

I have a high volume oil pump, and a stock windage tray that i am going to modifiy for more oil drain back. I'll pick up a fuel pump and water pump from the local auto part store...

As for headers in an e body, i was thinking the regular hooker Comps? I also have a holley 4150 750 that i think will work ok.

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197367
01/20/09 09:18 AM
01/20/09 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
if you want nice headers, check out the hedman elite's

PN HED-78038 at summit, $337. they're ceramic coated, 14 gage steel, with 3/8" thick flanges. AFAIK they don't go under the steering linkage either.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: 440challenger] #197368
01/20/09 09:37 AM
01/20/09 09:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Dodgem  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
516 heads are real restrictive. bought a pair once thinking that we could make 915's out of them with bigger exhaust valves (well 2.14/1.81) but they have small bowls and runners. Mill your 906 .075 and with the mild cams everyone is suggesting should be nice at about 9 to 1

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: Dodgem] #197369
01/20/09 10:42 AM
01/20/09 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
my 516's flow 253/171 @ .500 and 260/180 @ .600 For what yo have you should be ok. FWIW I ran that cam in a almost stock maybe 9:1 440 w/ an RPM intake and 750Dp and 3.91's in a 67 coronet. The car ran 12.90's all day.

Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: Mr.Yuck] #197370
01/20/09 11:56 AM
01/20/09 11:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,075
United States
STLDuster Offline
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I put together my '73 440 with almost the same parts, same cam, same heads. I used the larger (than stock) valves from a set of 346 heads. I gasket matched the intake and headers. I am hoping to start mine up for the first time around the end of Feburary. I cant wait!

Keep us updated! Good Luck!



"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle
Re: Budget BUILD Smog 440 Help [Re: STLDuster] #197371
01/20/09 12:18 PM
01/20/09 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 910
Southern Oregon
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toyotajeep Offline
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Southern Oregon
Easy question.

Is the summit cam a 3-bolt or a 1 bolt cam?

I am at work at the site is blocked for some reason.

I am doing essentially the identical build for my Dart Sport.

Thanks, ROB


1989 Dodge Cummins & 1989 Dodge W-250
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