Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#194502
01/21/09 11:06 AM
01/21/09 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Yes, I listed the info I had; but nobody wanted to play along.
Johnahah says we're beating the "dead horse", I think it's just that 383 cars get no respect & most don't care "what's correct"?
Got a link to this , I was out of the loop for a few months .
As far as I am concerned I very much care about 383 's since It's what I own , I feel I have a very good grasp on the 68/69 383 , 70 and up specs changed and I don't on anything newer than 69 so I don't pay much attention .
I was warned not to take the bait on this subject .
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194504
01/21/09 12:55 PM
01/21/09 12:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
I only have one cam BradH, the one that Ma Mopar installed into it June 1970.
Did you have anything that you can add to help our Mopar community find any answers as to which cam it was that was put in?
Measure yours and see if it's w/in approx. 1% of the #s below, which came from an OEM 440 HP cam w/ about 8000 miles on it. If yours is significantly different (smaller), then it's not an HP cam.
Lift---Int---Exh .006---291---309 .050---214---226 .100---182---193 .200---124---133
Max---.299"-.3065"
LSA: 115 + 3 (112 ICL)
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194506
01/21/09 04:17 PM
01/21/09 04:17 PM
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ebodyseast
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Here is the numbers matching engine. Disregard that it had a 1969 4bbl intake swapped at some point before it was wrecked in 80's. This is the same car that made me think the L code included 4 bbl's. Until I checked the numbers on the intake and listended to Dan, Doug and the others here in my very first thread here last year. Look at the valve springs. They're the standard variety & the exact same as the springs on a 1970 440/350hp C Body engine I own. No mystery here. TBC...
Last edited by ebodyseast; 01/21/09 04:22 PM.
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194508
01/21/09 04:46 PM
01/21/09 04:46 PM
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ebodyseast
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Here are the valve springs that my 1970 383 4bbl engine has. They're painted red, have a surge coil/damper and appear to be 1970 440HP valve springs. Many, many thanks to Doug and to Dan for taking time on this. Thanks guys...I mean gurus!! Let me stir the cauldron some more. The parts catalog and service manual (Plymouth) lists 1970 383 4bbl's intended solely for B/J/R/W as having the 440HP valves & valve springs. All others by D/P/C, including the 440/350hp - recieving the 383 2bbl parts. '70 E body E63 4bbl engines shared spark plugs, ignition timing, idle speeds, transmissions (10" t/c with 4bbl & automatic,) 666 intake manifold, HP exhaust manifolds as well as the option of dual exhaust. They shared distributors and also shared those uniquely designed '70 vacuum advance units. With all of the above being the case, they hardly resemble a 383 2bbl at all (blue paint they share.) The 330hp motors were already pre-set up to run the same cam/lifters as the 335 hp motors. The only parts that seems to not be shared between 1970 B/J/R/W E63 is the windage tray and Holley (with more CFM). Mopar Performance claimed to gain 16hp from the factory windage tray...alone. The 5hp difference is easily gained by a windage tray. ALL 1971 383 4bbls came with 1970 440HP parts, a Holley and ALL were considered HP. A significant change had occured from those earlier 1969 383 4bbl's that Doug has researched so thouroughly and all his '69 data means very little when compared to these '71 engines. In no way am I taking anything away from him or his research by stating. So how much of that '69 data will actually pertain to the 1970 383 4bbl as well? Don't know. When one went to buy a replacement 383 4bbl short engine in 1970 - p/n 3462621 - what color would these have been painted? How did one specify to a dealer's parts clerk to order an orange motor v blue motor when he was using then the same 70-71 parts catalog we all are still using today?
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194509
01/21/09 07:51 PM
01/21/09 07:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948 Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
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Quote:
The parts catalog and service manual (Plymouth) lists 1970 383 4bbl's intended solely for B/J/R/W as having the 440HP valves & valve springs. All others by D/P/C, including the 440/350hp - recieving the 383 2bbl parts.
Some things to consider...the parts books evolved as time went by and becomes a general reference for service and parts managers. As seen in other threads, there are numerous variations of applications that are not specifically addressed in the parts books or shop manuals. What is printed tends to be a generalization to cover most vehicles a service reapair person would face as opposed to a specific application.
At the time, ease and convenience for service and parts people was more important than what was technically correct. They were new cars, then they were used cars that needed fixed. They were never meant to be restored 40+ years down the road by anal-retentive car buffs.
There are mistakes in factory manuals and books. Do your own research to confirm what you read in the books. You will find things not address by factory info.
ALL 1971 383 4bbls came with 1970 440HP parts, a Holley and ALL were considered HP. A significant change had occured from those earlier 1969 383 4bbl's that Doug has researched so thouroughly and all his '69 data means very little when compared to these '71 engines. In no way am I taking anything away from him or his research by stating. So how much of that '69 data will actually pertain to the 1970 383 4bbl as well?
The use of the HP designation in '71 goes back to the '67 and earlier meaning. The term HP was used to distinguish between the 2bbl and 4bbl version. The use of HP between 68-70 does not mean the same thing as earlier and later years. Many other factors were starting to come into play by '71 making the use of shared parts more practical. Things evolve and change. What applied in 69 may or may not apply by 70.
When one went to buy a replacement 383 4bbl short engine in 1970 - p/n 3462621 - what color would these have been painted?
In my opinion, due to the difference of only 5 hp and the more wide spread use of the 330 horse engine, it would be much simpler to build and inventory only the 330 horse engines to use as replacements.
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs. Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: BradH]
#194510
01/22/09 05:54 PM
01/22/09 05:54 PM
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ebodyseast
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Forgot my manners to not yet thank BradH for his 440HP cam data - Gladly be using this as a standard for comparison. Thanks brother... Thanks again goes to Doug and Dan & for their valued opinions on this one. Cool guys... -------------------------------------------------- Edit: NHRA 1970 'Blueprint' specs from their web site...
Last edited by ebodyseast; 01/23/09 02:07 AM.
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194511
01/23/09 01:16 AM
01/23/09 01:16 AM
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ebodyseast
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Here's Mopar Performance's reference to 'red' color code 1970 440HP valve springs and the 'blue' 383 2bbl units; from their engines book. Knowing how many members here have or have seen '70 blue N Codes with 'red' springs - a pattern forms and some may take notice to it. Or not... If Mopar was installing 'red' HP valve springs into all their 1970 E63 equipped B/J/R/W models, then to conclude the matching HP cams were not also installed would...? Any one reading can fill in the blanks and keep to their self. -------------------------------------------------- Only know who your daddy is because momma told you so.
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194513
01/25/09 02:57 PM
01/25/09 02:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Quote:
Here's Mopar Performance's reference to 'red' color code 1970 440HP valve springs and the 'blue' 383 2bbl units; from their engines book.
Knowing how many members here have or have seen '70 blue N Codes with 'red' springs - a pattern forms and some may take notice to it. Or not...
If Mopar was installing 'red' HP valve springs into all their 1970 E63 equipped B/J/R/W models, then to conclude the matching HP cams were not also installed would...? Any one reading can fill in the blanks and keep to their self. --------------------------------------------------
Only know who your daddy is because momma told you so.
Wow...this guy REALLY IS BACK now. A little history...A year ago he came onto Moparts totally convinced that his 383 70 Barracuda vert should be considered one of the top 10 rare mopars on the planet. Like he is doing here, he posts asking for information and opinions and preceeds to rudely dismiss any that don't support the argument he is trying to build. Back during that thread, late one Friday night, he started making comments about other members mothers--not cool. He responded to me by saying "Bite Me" so I decided I would and I reported the thread to the mods, at which point he was given a much deserved time out. He is now back to his extremely immature references to mothers--again not cool. He is still convinced he is driving an uber-rare e-body that if only the rest of the world knew how rare....well who knows, but he's determined to prove his convoluted point.
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#194514
01/25/09 07:37 PM
01/25/09 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
but he's determined to prove his convoluted point.
The only way he's going to prove it is to measure HIS cam AND find at least 10 other unmolested engines that were built THROUGHOUT the PRODUCTION run of that model year to have been built EXACTLY as his is ...
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: formula_s]
#194516
01/25/09 08:57 PM
01/25/09 08:57 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
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Quote:
Wow...this guy REALLY IS BACK now. A little history...A year ago he came onto Moparts totally convinced that his 383 70 Barracuda vert should be considered one of the top 10 rare mopars on the planet.
He obviously has a fetish for his rather mundane car. quote]
A low performance one at that! Only 330 HP! Actually, I understand the curiosity. I'd want to know too. Probably all the parts are the same with a very minor difference in the carb or something? My 69 Barracuda 340S 4 speed fastback has air (I wonder if they made less of these than the 383 convertibles with air?) I wonder why they did not lower the horse power rating on the 340 with air but did on the 383's?. By the way, all 383HP and 440HP's had the red valve springs except the 440+6 had black springs. If the 330HP has blue springs, it must have a smaller cam?
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: 68HemiB]
#194518
01/27/09 02:30 AM
01/27/09 02:30 AM
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ebodyseast
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Edit: -------------------------------------------------- Thanks to the omnipotent and benevolant forces that be. Barry displayed the '70 Plymouth Barracuda data to the HH registy yesterday. Yay!! It was like nudey magazine day. No hard feelings John? Cool brother. Stick around long enough to see me eat crow. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. Pacman Greg Johnson can even have the honor of calling me out...once again.
Last edited by ebodyseast; 01/27/09 04:22 AM.
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Re: 1970 e body 383 4bbl 330hp cam p/n ?
[Re: ebodyseast]
#194519
01/27/09 02:00 PM
01/27/09 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
Edit: -------------------------------------------------- Thanks to the omnipotent and benevolant forces that be. Barry displayed the '70 Plymouth Barracuda data to the HH registy yesterday. Yay!! It was like nudey magazine day.
No hard feelings John? Cool brother. Stick around long enough to see me eat crow. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. Pacman Greg Johnson can even have the honor of calling me out...once again.
It's not about eating crow , no hard feelings here , unless you have owned that car from day one there is no telling what a previous owner has done . the factory uses whats available when they run out of something , did the better springs get put in that motor by accident ?
if you measure the cam lift that will tell you what it is , till then this is all just useless SPECULATION .
good luck
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