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Posted a pic that is easier to read.

Below is a paragraph from the Mopar Performance 'Mopar Engines' book; pg.277.

John, there is one or two valuable threads here on Moparts the past few weeks that the guys have offered up alot of info and with factory documents, sales ads, and much more concerning the 1968/'69 B body 383 4bbl's.

For whatever reason(s) - Mopar decided that ALL 1971 383 4bbl's would share the same 440HP cam.

It would not be too far off to speculate that this same decision had taken effect after 1969; and for the same reason(s); only it began with certain chosen models - like the new for '70 E bodys (B/J) and the other 'perfromance' models (R/W.)

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I would take ANY info in the mopar engine manual with a HUGE grain of salt , afterall they state all late model big blocks are THIN WALL castings and that has been PROVEN FALSE . ...

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1970 plymouth & dodge service manuals both state that the '70 e body 383 4bbl (non-HP;330hp;blue) engines shared the same cam & valve springs as the 383 4bbl (HP;335hp;orange) and the 440 4bbl (HP;375hp;orange)

Is there any evidence &/or proof that the service manuals are both wrong? Nick

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that PARTIAL page of a 70-71 parts book doesn't say, atleast the part you posted, that the 2bbl cam in a 4bbl motor was only used in C Barges

John. I agree. Revert back to the service manual specs/legend to see that ONLY the Fury and Suburban 383 4bbl's use the 2bbl cam.

Second, research a 1970 Dodge service manual, what cars does it exclude?
Next, check a 1970 Chrysler sevice manual, and what cars does it exclude?
There appear to be quite a few 1970 Dodge & Chrysler models that are also excluded, not just Fury and Suburbans made by Plymouth.

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also take that COMBINED parts manual with a LARGE grain of salt , or does anyone have any PROOF that in the beginning of the 70 model year that chrysler was putting out 70-71 parts manuals ????

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Yes, I believe there was a parts catalog created for 1970...exclusively. If I had one I would refer to it as well.

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oh and something is not right, NHRA doesn't list the same cam lift spec for the 330 HP 383 as the 335 and the 440 HP's, NHRA is GIVEN THAT INFO BY CHRYSLER.

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While that may be true, the cam specs do not agree with the service manual specs and NHRA 'factors' both 1970 383 4bbl engines THE EXACT SAME.

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I only have one cam BradH, the one that Ma Mopar installed into it June 1970.

Did you have anything that you can add to help our Mopar community find any answers as to which cam it was that was put in?

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While that may be true, the cam specs do not agree with the service manual specs and NHRA 'factors' both 1970 383 4bbl engines THE EXACT SAME.

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Dead horse

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This horse is very much alive and kickin'...giddyup. You may go now John. Yippy kai aye.

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1970 plymouth & dodge service manuals both state that the '70 e body 383 4bbl (non-HP;330hp;blue) engines shared the same cam & valve springs as the 383 4bbl (HP;335hp;orange) and the 440 4bbl (HP;375hp;orange)

Is there any evidence &/or proof that the service manuals are both wrong? Nick

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The 1970 Plymouth Service Manual covers A, B, C, & E-bodies in one manual, where Dodge took 3 manuals to cover all four body types. Sorry. I didn't know that Plymouth set their books up different than Dodge.


IMO ... the HOLLEY 4bbl topped ORANGE 383s received the HP cam!!
............... the CARTER 4bbl topped BLUE 383s did NOT!!

I agree. Weren't you compiling all the various '70 383 engine assembly codes cross referenced to carbs, trannys, A/C and emissions?

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Dead horse

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This horse is very much alive and kickin'...giddyup. You may go now John. Yippy kai aye.

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Why am I being asked to LEAVE , because I'm NOT GIVING you the ANSWER you are FISHING FOR ???

You seem to have it set in your mind what YOU want it to have , you have the ORIGINAL ENGINE. It has the ORIGINAL CAM, MEASURE THE LIFT and REPORT YOUR FINDINGS ...

It's NOT that HARD

Or have you already done that elsewhere ?

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Yes, I listed the info I had; but nobody wanted to play along.

Johnahah says we're beating the "dead horse", I think it's just that 383 cars get no respect & most don't care "what's correct"?

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Yes, I listed the info I had; but nobody wanted to play along.

Johnahah says we're beating the "dead horse", I think it's just that 383 cars get no respect & most don't care "what's correct"?

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I care!

Just so you know, there are some of us that find this stuff very interesting and follow all these threads. I don't have the knowledge or the data that you, Doug and John have so I typically keep quiet and let you guys do your thing.

Without you guys there would be nobody correcting some of the mistakes in these 40 year old manuals, etc. Knowledge is a good thing!


Dave

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I only have one cam BradH, the one that Ma Mopar installed into it June 1970.

Did you have anything that you can add to help our Mopar community find any answers as to which cam it was that was put in?

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The parts catalog and service manual (Plymouth) lists 1970 383 4bbl's intended solely for B/J/R/W as having the 440HP valves & valve springs. All others by D/P/C, including the 440/350hp - recieving the 383 2bbl parts.

Some things to consider...the parts books evolved as time went by and becomes a general reference for service and parts managers. As seen in other threads, there are numerous variations of applications that are not specifically addressed in the parts books or shop manuals. What is printed tends to be a generalization to cover most vehicles a service reapair person would face as opposed to a specific application.

At the time, ease and convenience for service and parts people was more important than what was technically correct. They were new cars, then they were used cars that needed fixed. They were never meant to be restored 40+ years down the road by anal-retentive car buffs.

There are mistakes in factory manuals and books. Do your own research to confirm what you read in the books. You will find things not address by factory info.

ALL 1971 383 4bbls came with 1970 440HP parts, a Holley and ALL were considered HP. A significant change had occured from those earlier 1969 383 4bbl's that Doug has researched so thouroughly and all his '69 data means very little when compared to these '71 engines. In no way am I taking anything away from him or his research by stating. So how much of that '69 data will actually pertain to the 1970 383 4bbl as well?

The use of the HP designation in '71 goes back to the '67 and earlier meaning. The term HP was used to distinguish between the 2bbl and 4bbl version. The use of HP between 68-70 does not mean the same thing as earlier and later years. Many other factors were starting to come into play by '71 making the use of shared parts more practical. Things evolve and change. What applied in 69 may or may not apply by 70.

When one went to buy a replacement 383 4bbl short engine in 1970 - p/n 3462621 - what color would these have been painted?

In my opinion, due to the difference of only 5 hp and the more wide spread use of the 330 horse engine, it would be much simpler to build and inventory only the 330 horse engines to use as replacements.

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Here's Mopar Performance's reference to 'red' color code 1970 440HP valve springs and the 'blue' 383 2bbl units; from their engines book.

Knowing how many members here have or have seen '70 blue N Codes with 'red' springs - a pattern forms and some may take notice to it. Or not...

If Mopar was installing 'red' HP valve springs into all their 1970 E63 equipped B/J/R/W models, then to conclude the matching HP cams were not also installed would...? Any one reading can fill in the blanks and keep to their self.
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Only know who your daddy is because momma told you so.

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Wow...this guy REALLY IS BACK now. A little history...A year ago he came onto Moparts totally convinced that his 383 70 Barracuda vert should be considered one of the top 10 rare mopars on the planet.
Like he is doing here, he posts asking for information and opinions and preceeds to rudely dismiss any that don't support the argument he is trying to build.
Back during that thread, late one Friday night, he started making comments about other members mothers--not cool. He responded to me by saying "Bite Me" so I decided I would and I reported the thread to the mods, at which point he was given a much deserved time out. He is now back to his extremely immature references to mothers--again not cool.
He is still convinced he is driving an uber-rare e-body that if only the rest of the world knew how rare....well who knows, but he's determined to prove his convoluted point.

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but he's determined to prove his convoluted point.

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The only way he's going to prove it is to measure HIS cam AND find at least 10 other unmolested engines that were built THROUGHOUT the PRODUCTION run of that model year to have been built EXACTLY as his is ...

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Wow...this guy REALLY IS BACK now. A little history...A year ago he came onto Moparts totally convinced that his 383 70 Barracuda vert should be considered one of the top 10 rare mopars on the planet.

He obviously has a fetish for his rather mundane car. quote]

A low performance one at that! Only 330 HP! Actually, I understand the curiosity. I'd want to know too. Probably all the parts are the same with a very minor difference in the carb or something? My 69 Barracuda 340S 4 speed fastback has air (I wonder if they made less of these than the 383 convertibles with air?) I wonder why they did not lower the horse power rating on the 340 with air but did on the 383's?. By the way, all 383HP and 440HP's had the red valve springs except the 440+6 had black springs. If the 330HP has blue springs, it must have a smaller cam?

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Wow...this guy REALLY IS BACK now. A little history...A year ago...

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Thanks to the omnipotent and benevolant forces that be. Barry displayed the '70 Plymouth Barracuda data to the HH registy yesterday. Yay!! It was like nudey magazine day.

No hard feelings John? Cool brother. Stick around long enough to see me eat crow. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. Pacman Greg Johnson can even have the honor of calling me out...once again.

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