Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
#1920764
09/27/15 05:35 PM
09/27/15 05:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282 Northeast MA
Charger446
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282
Northeast MA
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A few weeks ago I got the 440 running again in my Charger. I am putting off having a motor built for a few more years so I figured Id try to get away with a refresh of my motor. The motor was running well when parked 15 years ago. The cylinders looked ok so I just honed them with a flex ball and put new rings and bearings. The pistons had a few scratches in them but the machine shop who loosened them up on the rods thought they were ok. I had a few pistons that felt tight on the rod so I had them clean and re press them. The car was an automatic before, now a 4 speed, changed the heads to Edelbrock RPM, same intake and carbs and headers. The rockers are stock stamped steel Mopar, same ones that came out along with the pushrods. I re used the cam and lifters, putting them all in the same spot. Cam is Mopar 284/484, its running terrible right now, blowing gray smoke, about 8 inches of vacuum, not sure what the power valve is, but it smells very rich. I tried putting about 18 degrees initial timing, but it dieseled after shut off, didn't really drive it around to see if pinging, and with the noise, don't want to rev it up to high. I tried retarding the timing and the noise was still there. The noise follows the RPMS, almost sounds like an exhaust leak but it isn't. Not sure what I can do w/o taking off the intake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSS5oCcsRaQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFh6mxFDMrE
Last edited by Charger446; 09/27/15 05:37 PM.
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1920769
09/27/15 05:41 PM
09/27/15 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,867 N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,867
N.E. Ohio
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Sounds alot like valve train. Collapsed lifters or way too much pre-load. Too slow for rotating assembly parts.
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas 9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ! 2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1920774
09/27/15 05:52 PM
09/27/15 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,636 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,636
Las Vegas
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Definitely a valvetrain noise. What rockers are on it???
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1920775
09/27/15 05:52 PM
09/27/15 05:52 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701 Northern California
lilcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
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Sounds heavier than valvetrain to me. You say they pressed a couple of pistons off and back on. Did they measure the skirts afterwards? Pressing pistons off can distort the skirts.
'67 is an abbreviation of 1967 67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet They are not interchangeable.
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1920780
09/27/15 06:05 PM
09/27/15 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,116 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,116
Rio Linda, CA
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"Valve train noises occur at half of crankshaft speed so even if your ear can't tell whether the noise is happening at 700 rpm (raps per minute) or only 350 rpm, your eyes can. Hook the timing light to any one cylinder and watch the flash illuminate the timing mark. Stare at it for a while and see if the flash jives with the knock. If it does, then it is more likely to be rocker arms, pushrods, lifters, camshaft, cam bearings, timing chain and gears. If the noise seems twice as fast it is probably in the crank, mains, rods, rod bearings, wristpins and pistons."
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1920783
09/27/15 06:10 PM
09/27/15 06:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,724 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,724
Fulton County, PA
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Not going to be remedied by fiddling with timing, PVs, etc. Start taking it apart and looking. Pull the valve covers and bar it over. Look for something not right. Pull the plugs, spin it with the starter and listen. Pull the front and check cam timing, fasteners, etc. Been there. Sucks. Just have to start looking. First vid sounds like it has a miss to me along with the noise.
ETA...A mechanic's stethoscope could be very useful. I would limit the run time until I knew what it was.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 09/27/15 06:15 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: a493demon]
#1920803
09/27/15 06:58 PM
09/27/15 06:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,127 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,127
85086
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Are the rocker shaft oiling properly?
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1921165
09/28/15 12:25 PM
09/28/15 12:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057
The Great White North
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More than likely piston slap and or piston pin seized up. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1921259
09/28/15 03:03 PM
09/28/15 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,192 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,192
CT
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The holes in the rocker shaft should face the valve springs.
Did you ever run the stock pushrods before with this cam? IMO the stock pushrods are likely too short.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1921316
09/28/15 04:37 PM
09/28/15 04:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282 Northeast MA
Charger446
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282
Northeast MA
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I did run these exact rockers/pushrods before on this motor, same cam, only difference was the heads. I ran stock iron heads previously, now running Edelbrock RPM.
Last edited by Charger446; 09/28/15 04:37 PM.
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1921324
09/28/15 04:50 PM
09/28/15 04:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
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I did run these exact rockers/pushrods before on this motor, same cam, only difference was the heads. I ran stock iron heads previously, now running Edelbrock RPM. Did you check the lifter preload ? Was it making the same noise with the rollers ?
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1921333
09/28/15 05:03 PM
09/28/15 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,867 N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,867
N.E. Ohio
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Maybe the pushrods are touching the heads side loading the rockers
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas 9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ! 2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Refreshed 440 sounds like a diesel - video
[Re: Charger446]
#1921872
09/29/15 03:42 PM
09/29/15 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,116 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,116
Rio Linda, CA
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I figured the stock rockers would take the variable of the adjustable roller rockers out. Keep in mind that aluminum heads expand more than iron, if there is little/no preload on the lifters the preload will disappear as the heads expand away from the lifters.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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