I want to rebuild the 440 in my 67' Belvedere this winter. Currently it's a 1973 440 with a cast crank that is .010 under. The bore is .030 over already. I am going to reuse my TTI 1 7/8 headers, my Edelbrock performer RPM intake, Edelbrock rpm heads, Hughes 1.5 roller rockers and my Firecore distributor.

This is a street cruiser that will live with 3.23 gears and power brakes. Running on 91 octane pump gas.

Hoping to build right around the 500hp mark

One of the better Mopar friendly engine shops in the area wants to sell me a 500 stroker kit. All built reusing my heads, intake, water pump housing etc and with a roller cam and broke in and tuned on the dyno they are quoting $9400 which is more then I want to spend.

Providing my block sonic checks out to go past the .030 bore is running the cast crank around the 480 hp mark an issue? Any other advice.

Wouldn't you be replacing your Cast Crank with a New Forged, Stroked, Crank?

If it is a Cast Crank engine, wouldn't it be externally balanced and need conversion to internal balance, new ballancer, etc?

In any event, beyond all that, you could buy a Brand New 493 Cu.In., 525HP, Mopar Performance Crate Motor, with Free Shipping, from Summit Racing for $7,400, U.S.

(NOTE: The Photo Summit used in their ad for this engine is "generic" that of a Mopar Small Block, but the Description Clearly States "Mopar Big Block RB.)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bpc4931ct/overview/make/dodge

It includes Aluminum Heads, Stroker Crank, everything, and All New Parts at that price, (though I did see two similar options that were $8k and $9k listed as well).

Considering all the parts you already have, seems you could do better somewhere else or on your own, with the exception of the time spent or hassle factor in letting them do all the work. That is an installed, turn-key price, correct?

You might also get a better recipe (perhaps) asking the same question in the "Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech" Section/forum in Moparts.

Dyno time is probably close to $500 so the assembly itself is $8,900. You're not asking a lot at 500 hp on a 440. I pretty much feel you can have that happen under the $8,900 mark.

You could do it for a lot less if you want to do some of the work yourself. Are you able to do engine assembly yourself or is this something you feel better about having someone else do? You're paying them a lot extra for them to do all the assy, break in and dyno tuning.

Your cast crank would be good for more HP than you plan on making. Given the goodies you already have, you could do a set of KB237 pistons, bore your block, have your crank checked/ground down, have your block decked for quench, have your rods reconditioned (or buy a set already done for cheaper or buy a set of aftermarket stock replacement type rods like 440source sells) , new rings and bearings, have the assy balanced and run a MP .528 cam instead of that roller, will need a new set of pushrods. That cam will get you where you want to be, plus work with the stock edelbrock valve springs.

With our currency being in the toilet right now, I would expect this to run you near 2000 in parts. Depending on machine shop rates in your area, I would expect around another 600 for block/crank work and another 1000-1500 if you expect them to put it all together, fit your pushrods, set your valves and run it on the dyno.

For your goals, I wouldn't look at a roller cam or a stroker kit. If you're dead set on the stroker, if you budgeted an extra 2500 you could get a 440source stroker kit. Remember how low our dollar is right now.

9400 dollars and you already have the parts? IMO it really should not cost more than 4K if you already own the top end, but maybe machine work is way more expensive in Canada.

Cast crank will be fine if you're not spinning the snot out of it.

Stroker is the way to go, you will not regret it. Do as much as you can yourself as stated. With the parts you already have for another 4-5 grand you should have a strong motor with a load of torque. I built a 493 and would never go back to stock stroke. The only extra is the crank, pistons cost the same as 440. I always have my assemblies balanced, cost is minimal.

I'm not dead set on the stroker. The machine shop is the one pushing that way I'm very open either way.

The price quoted is just built as a runnign engine. Install is still down to me. The reason I wanted the long block and dyno run was I have known so many people who yo-yo engines in and out because of build problems.

Also if I do the assembly and it craters on start up I'm S.O.L at least if they put it together they fix it.

There's no way I'm spending $9400 right now.

My main concerns where if my block was even worth building being .030 and with a cast crank and if my horsepower goals are attainable with a budget build based on my existing parts. The one thing I am solid on wanting to run is a roller cam just to be done with camshaft issues. I know this eats up about $800 but am ok with that. For a stock stroke build is it worth putting ARP hardware into?

0.030 over isn't bad, but if you are rebuilding the short block, you need to get the machine shop to inspect for cracks, check for core shift when the block was cast leading to thin spots and determine how much material will need to be removed to clean up and align the bores.

How much experience do you have in engine building? Do you have any friends or acquaintances with more experience willing to help you? If you have reasonable skills and read up on what you need to do, no one else will put as much care into your engine as you would yourself, so long as you know what to do and are willing to spend enough time to do everything right. Of course, you also need the correct tools.

Seems to me, I saw some crate motor short blocks. That might be another option.

That said, If you have more money than time and expertise, better to have someone else do the work, but even then, it's a crap shoot. Good shops sometimes screw up as well. Even when they step up and make good on repairs, there is still the hassle-factor involved.

Guys,
He's using CANADIAN DOLLARS. At the current exchange rate, 9400 Canadian dollars equals $7050.

So multiply all your American prices by 4/3 to get what he pays. That $2100 stroker kit is 2800. Etcetera.

TO the OP: You can easily make 500hp with what you have. Even the stock crank is okay. I bought a factory cast crank new in box for $75.00. Or, with the popularity of strokers, used forged cranks are becoming more affordable.

Spend a lot of your money on a really good machine shop. This cannot be stressed highly enough.

I'd have the bores checked for roundness and taper. Possibly you can get buy without reboring, or else using a precision hone go out 0.010". 4.36" rings are readily available, that's a stock 460 Ford or a 0.020 over 400 Mopar (actually 4.362). The goal is to not sacrifice any more of your cylinder wall than you have to. If your machinist isn't comfortable going over such a small amount maybe it's time to look around.

If the block checks out structurally, the next step is squaring the decks. Chrysler blocks have decks going every which way. You need to do this before boring or honing, buying pistons, etc. The goal is consistent compression ratios front to back, side to side.

I'd spend half my money on a set of lightweight custom forged pistons and new rods. Lighten the burden on the crank, eliminate the 3/8" rod bolts, and get the piston top to zero deck to work with your Edelbrock heads. Shoot for 10.5:1 static compression. You'll be able to feel the lighter components' effects on acceleration immediately, it really makes a difference and will let those intake parts work.

Good Luck!

R.

three things come to mind with your post.

What is your budget?
How do you want the car to drive (idle vacuum and low speed cruise characteristics)?
Why 500 hp? (Do you knowwhat you have now? what is the track performance?)

Some people want 500 hp hp because they think they already have 400 hp, but in reality, they have 300 hp.

450 hp will put you well into the 12s. Ron's (383Man) old motor (440) was about 500 hp, ran 11.50s and would pull a tire off the ground.

Depending on the details of what you have available and you stated goals, the 440 rebuild can get you their for the lowest spend.

Rebuild your short block with factory parts, use a light weight zero deck flat top piston, minor head work (valve job, back cut, some bowl work, wrap it up with a 10.3:1 ish CR, and a mild solid tappet cam.

The current engine was dyno'd and came in at 350hp to the rear wheels.

Anywhere from 450 to 500 is what I'd like to see, the reason being with the size and weight of the car it should be enough shove to feel respectable without feeling over or underwhelming.

The engine as built now is .030 so to what extent it will need to be bored to is yet to be determined. Is there a rule of thumb when sonic checking to what the go/no go is on boring? How much material is required between the cylinders?

Characteristics are 91 octane, 3.23 gears,street friendly cruiser that can run power brakes.

350 at the wheels is roughly 440 at the fly
so your saying you want around 500 at the wheels? thats closer to a 600hp or so engine, for street manners the stroker would be pretty much mandatory and im sure everyone who has posted would be adding a big (roller) cam and a stall converter to the build list as well as a bunch of forged stuff.

The more inches will build the torque, but the HP will come from the heads n cam

That shop is looking to hose you. Period.
If you have the block machined and it's currently running, and you have the heads, the cost for a stroker should be under $5K. (Canadian) That's including magging and sonic testing the block, assuming it passes both, fitting the mains with studs and align honing, all the consumables, a valve job on the heads, and springs for a new cam, assembly, and either dyno or running stand break in. I just a customer's (383 to 496) last year. It now makes 450+ to the tires and won stock appearing at Carlisle.
However, that being said - you also don't need to go stroker to make the poewr you want. The power would be the same should you beef up the 440 - however the rpms that the power is made will be a bit higher which means (at least to me ) less streetable. Read that as raspier idle, looser convertor needed, possibly gearing changes, etc.
My advice is to find a builder you can trust (this would not be the one you've spoken to) and get a 2nd opinion, maybe a 3rd.

My current engine as it sits is a bit tired. It has blow by and some piston slap when cold. So I'm unsure what machine work it will really need.

My original plan was to take it in freshen it up, go to a roller cam. The I started reading about core shift in 440's online and got concerned whether my block would even be usable if the current state of the bore is too damaged. So a buddy tells me he has a running stock bore 400 and I started thinking 451 stroker. Once I mentioned this at the shop the advice was to stroke my 440 and that even at .040 over it would be fine.

I was hoping to build it for about 5 grand with a contingency to go to 6 if needed. Having the Edelbrock heads, intake, good distributor, front cover and accessories as well as headers I figured it was doable to push to the 450-500hp range without stroking it.

So main things I was concerned with:

Is my cast crank suitable as its been cut .010 on a previous rebuild? If I stay with the cast crank is it worth it to have it balanced?

Is .040 over ok for a 440 and what numbers in a sonic check should I be looking for?

If I stay with a stock stroke 440 is it worth looking at better rods with the .990 pins for my build?

Stock hardware or should I spend the bucks to go to all ARP?

Is my budget even realistic?

I wouldn't worry about the crank in this case. They may even just be able to polish it up if it doesn't need to be cut.



Again, going an extra .010 wouldn't worry me. Member with more experience than me will know the sonic numbers they shoot for, but if it was ok at .030, what's an extra .010? Your machine shop will have to check it to see how much of a bore it would need before you can even make that assumption.


You call. Lots guys have built 500-550 crank HP 440 build with stock rods. If you go to a non-stock pin size, your off-the-shelf piston choices will be impacted.

I would do ARP head bolts and main cap bolts. Those will both drop right on. If you have your stock rods reconditioned, have ARP rod bolts put in and you'll be good with the stock rods.



Yes, very. It will depend on how much the shop of your choice wants to hose you and how much/little of the work you want to do yourself.

Big time!

Just to be clear my engine is running but it has some good blow by so it will require some degree of machining. Something in the previous owners rebuild did not get done correctly or just poorly as it only has about 5000 miles on it.

The aluminum heads have about half that mileage on them.

I know that without opening the engine and making checks it's all an educated guess. I just want to see what price range I am looking at before it snowballs out of control on my back account. If it couldn't be done for 6 grand Canadian then I will drive it for another season.

It might just need ball honed and rings. If there is cylinder wall damage then .010 probably won't fix it.

Pull the heads off this winter and send them out for porting. IMM on the west coast or Porter Racing Heads on the east coast are good shops. While the heads are off take a look at the short block to see if there are any issues. Measure how far down the pistons are at TDC and look at the cylinder walls.

You should also do a compression check and a leak down test before you pull the heads.

Try the ported heads and see if that is enough power increase for you. If the compression test and leak down numbers are good then you'll see a decent increase in power for about $1500.

I agree with Bsb67. Follow his recommendations....