Dinking around with 71 Demons and Dusters I have seen too many variables to make the call on what is correct or not and could use some input from you guys.

In 1971 you got:

Manual drum brakes (standard)
Manual (front) disc brakes
Power drum brakes
Power (front) disc brakes

I've seen 3 basic styles of master cylinders used (looking at what APPEAR to be original cars) some appear to be the wrong ones based on the information I can find.

What I am trying to determine is which style would be correct for a 71 with manual disc brakes. The pictures I'm posting are examples I have seen so far. First up are a survivor 1971 Demon and a survivor 1972 Duster both equipped with power brakes (I believe both also have front discs, I will verify and post later). Notice how the front of one MC is flat while the other is rounded.

Here's a 71 with manual disc brakes....Again, a survivor, but I can't say if the MC is the original or not. Looks like the same MC the orange 71 Demon has with power discs. Notice the bail wire is reversed.

I can take a picture of a Challenger Drum Brakes all around Master with Dana if that will help, original Master.Not sure if E and A used the same stuff in 1971 and have not looked in the parts book. You might also want to Message Mccannix he seems to be up on this stuff far more than I am.

Sure, can't hurt, thanks!

Scott,this is/was my 71 Canadian built one of 75 340 Swinger,original master cylinder,best picture I have.

Discs or drums up front Bill?

All of the cars so far have disc brake master cylinders. You can tell because they have a big reservoir and a small reservoir. The drum masters will have equal size reservoirs.

JeffC,

That's what I thought as well, but here's a 1971 Duster parts car in my backyard, I can't swear that it's correct but it looks like original parts and it runs, drives, stops normally, it is a power drum brake car but since the fender tag is not coded for power brakes I can only assume the booster was added.

And here is one on my 1970 parts car, also runs, drives, and brakes just fine. It's manual drum brake car (with the correct drum style 50/50 MC)

I think it was probably replaced at some point with the wrong master cylinder. I'm sure it stops fine I dont think the extra volume of fluid would effect the way the drum brakes work.



I myself had a 69 Dart that was converted to front disc and I ran the drum brake master for a few years. It stopped good you just had to step on the pedal harder than normal.

Picture 3 on yellow car is correct I have a original one at home and I have had car bought new Manuel disc brakes 1970 Duster 340 Changed master once and kept original

Drum all around,possibly something to do with the 71 Canadian built Darts .

Paul, could you post a few pictures of the original you kept?

Bill, here's the fender tag to the power drum car I posted the pic of (it's orange now but originally a bare bones white car, blue interior, column auto slant 6, Los Angeles plant).

Here we go! I found some long lost pictures that might clear things up. This is a survivor 1971 Dart, manual disc brakes with a good fender tag and broadcast sheet.

2

Car

So the question. Where is the best source for the correct MC, one that does the job and looks correct?

Should be the part number ending in 621. One inch bore. Worked for power and manual front disk brakes. It's often referred to as the Hemi MC. Are you looking for one?

Swap meet I guess, a lot of the aftermarket ones have a small round recess in the front snout . I have a original MC for a manual drum for my 71 demon last time I checked the kit for it was available at Napa for around $35. I'd have to dig it out but it has numbers on the underside that jive with the SM, # 3461189

Went back in my E-mails and here's what I found out.

67-68 used the MC 2225541. Had a 1" bore. Was used on both power and manual disc brakes. The MC lid had 70R3 stamping.

69-70 used MC 2229171 and 2229191 which was used on the Hemi cars. The lid had a stamping of J1703

It's my understanding that the 2229171 was used on all disc brake cars through 1975.

Also 70-71 Cuda/Challanger used 294444476 and 477.

Of course we all know the assembly workers used whatever part was available on a given day.

Find an original and rebuild it ?

I bought one about 13 yrs ago from Bill Rolik , he had some NOS ones, including the rod to the brake pedal, I put it in a friends 67 barracuda that he converted to discs ... wish I bought more than one ...

I'd take that option John, but every one I see on parts cars seems to be a replacement, ebay shows nothing either.

This was from an article in Mopar Action. If I remember a board member here wrote the article way back when.

I have found that all 71-up drum brake master cylinders are like the first picture Scott posted, and all Cardone rebuilt master cylinders for ALL forms of brake systems on A-Body's revert to this type master cylinder with power, manual, drums, or discs.

Rhino,the first pic I posted is of Bill S. former survivor Demon, I notice the one on this car is painted black. I'm pretty sure that's not original, could it be one of the Cardone units you mention?

Wheres Mastershake ??



3461189 71-72 a body manual disk brakes and drum
71-72 b-e body manual disk brakes
3461187 power disk brakes 71 -75 b-body
e- body 71-74
c-body 71 -75

3580184
71-74 be body manual brakes
???????????

ademon

Check out the broadcast sheet I posted above, it's coded 15 in the master cylinder box and 41 in the disc brake box. It's a manual front disc brake car. It's also from the same plant as mine and built within 6 weeks of mine. So, it shows the exact combo my car came with. Which master cylinder is code "15"?

Quote-Went back in my E-mails and here's what I found out.

67-68 used the MC 2225541. Had a 1" bore. Was used on both power and manual disc brakes. The MC lid had 70R3 stamping.
67-70

69-70 used MC 2229171 and 2229191 which was used on the Hemi cars. The lid had a stamping of J1703
2229171 (1" bore) was '70 E body disc except hemi
2229191 (1-1/8" bore) was all 70-71 hemi cars with disc

It's my understanding that the 2229171 was used on all disc brake cars through 1975.
70 E body only. The casting number 3461187 (1-1/32") master cylinder was sort of a 1 size fits all for most 71-75 power disc brake Mopars

Also 70-71 Cuda/Challanger used 294444476 and 477.
2944476 is the Chrysler part number for the 2229191 casting number 70-71 hemi disc brake master.
2944477 is the part number for the 2226821 casting number (1-1/8") bore master cylinder for non hemi power disc brake '70 B bodies

Of course we all know the assembly workers used whatever part was available on a given day.

I doubt a safety critical item like a master cylinder would be substituted at will by an assembly line worker without engineering approval. Not saying something like that never happened, there is a road test of a hemi cuda in a fall of '69 car magazine I've seen, and the underhood photo in the article you can see a '68-'69 C body disc brake master cylinder is what is on the car. Obviously the car would have been an early production car, but was that master cylinder installed on the line, or did the original master cylinder go bad shortly after the car started getting thrashed by magazine editors and replaced with what mechanics had available?

My information came from documentation I had access to when I worked for the company that made Raybestos and United brake parts. We had researchers who would study the part numbers of all the car makers brake parts, and when a new part number was found, one of these parts was ordered through car dealer's parts department, and the part analyzed and documented by engineering for potential addition to our product line.
This process went on for decades, we had documentation going back into the 50's.
We kept the samples after they were analyzed. Unfortunately over the years before I began working there in 1990, there had been several housecleanings, and obsolete part numbers, parts we had discontinued from our line, they had tossed the samples. Rare samples like 2229171 and 2229191 were tossed a few years before I was hired.
In my spare time/boredom, I studied the Mopar master cylinder documentation for the late 60 through early 70s. I started buying up some parts I found for sale that had casting numbers I saw on documentation of interesting master cylinders that had been scrapped from our samples.
As far as the original question, I believe the casting number 3461176 is correct for 71-75 power disc A bodies.
As far as my info on 71 on A body manual disc my information is a bit incomplete unfortunately. There is a part number for a manual disc master cylinder used on B and E bodies. Maybe it was used on A bodies too?
Here is a picture of it, casting number 2229271

My 3461189 is a drum/drum style ( same size reservoir front and rear) came off of a 71 demon drum/drum no power assist. But at this point I'm not sure about these 71 cars.

Note that sample I posted is painted black. It has a label on it that says "Bendix remanufactured" on it, but the flange and outlet areas look virgin, the part has never been installed on a car, so not sure how it ended up getting labeled remanufactured.
For Bendix master cylinders from the 60s and 70s their original finish is something I've never 100% nailed down. '67-'70 Mopar disc brake master cylinders were always painted black. Many NOS Mopar master cylinders from the '70s had sort of a parkerized gray coating. I've seen others where the body was E coated.
Bendix master cylinders I've seen from those eras for the other 2/3rds of the big 3 generally had black e coated bodies and plated caps.
I have a couple NOS Mopar late 60s with the bolt on cap drum brake master cylinders that have black e coated bodies with plated caps. I hesitate to mention that, as I was shouted down here several years ago for questioning if any of these with the E coated castings were installed on the assembly line. People were sure that never happened, that style master was always bare metal. They must have E coated ones used for replacement parts so they wouldn't rust when in inventory was the theory as to how they exist.
I was involved in a project at Raybestos around 12 or 13 years ago where we came out with a "premium" line of wheel cylinders, and one of the enhancements was that we black E coated the castings. That turned out to be a real headache, all the work setting up a complete second set of bills of materials, keeping otherwise identical wheel assemblies isolated from each other, and the added cost of the e coating, doomed the project and it was abandoned within a year. The fact that I don't think we were fooling customers much that a shiny black wheel cylinder with a higher grade of plating on the bleeder screw was worth paying more for than what our standard wheel cylinders cost!
If they wanted to keep replacement drum brake master cylinders from rusting while on the parts dealers shelves, I would think they would have painted them, not E coated them. That is why I wonder if any originally installed drum brake Mopar masters were E coated black.
Sorry to go a little off topic on the subject of original finishes! One of the few things about Mopar master cylinders I don't feel like I am an expert on.

I just dug this out of my stash. The lid is blank, no stampings

It is a 1973 unit but based on the info posted above should be the same for 71. The casting number appears too late however.

That's the finish I refer to as "parkerized" looking.
After the '70 model year, I never saw any stampings on any lids until maybe the late 70s or early 80s.
I don't have anything on that casting number in my notes.
One helpful thing with NOS Mopar master cylinders from the 71 through mid 70s era, is that they generally have that little tin tag with some information stamped in it hanging from the hold down wire. I see it in your photos, but the angle of the picture doesn't show the numbers stamped in it.
There should be 2 sets of numbers and the letters "PWR" since it is a power brake master cylinder. The 4 numbers are the last 4 numbers of the Chrysler part number.

Mastershake,

Yes it has the tag. Question, for all saying the power and non power MC's were the same, why would they bother putting the PWR identifier on the tags? What's different about them?

Also, I've noticed the Parkerized finish as being different/darker from production line originals, the lid especially.

"0112" are the last 4 numbers of the Chrysler part number.
I don't have anything in my notes with any Chrysler part numbers ending in 0112. I must admit though, when I was digging through the records at my old work over 10 years ago, I didn't dig too much into anything after '71. Now I wish I had when I had the chance.
I am not completely sure on your tag question. Manual brake master cylinder primary pistons have a indentation machined into the recess where the push rod inserts into it, for the rubber retainer used on manual brake push rods to lock the pushrod in place. Most of the disc brake master cylinder primary piston recesses from that era have this indentation too though I've noticed, even though it serves no purpose with the push rod used with a booster.
Those tags with part of the part number didn't appear until the early 70s. I've seen some tin tags on disc brake master cylinders from the late 60s, but on those tags, only a date code appeared. By late '68 or early '69 they didn't have the tags any more, the datecode was stamped into the side of the casting. When the tags started being used again in the early '70s is when they started putting the 4 numbers from the part number and PWR on them, and I think others said Manual or an abbreviation for manual.

Well since you mentioned it, here's the rear. What style do you see here?

I checked with theramman and it looks like he may have one. I had him rebuild.a MC for me
a few months ago that had the later part number. I'm not going to use it since I found the correct part for the GTS. It's now packed up in Mesa, I won't be down there until mid September. I can check if you can wait.

Hope these help. Easier to see if you save the pic then zoom in.

Mastershake, what do you think of this example? Original or? Notice the weird snout?

It was on a factory manual disc brake 1971 Duster, 318 car, very original car, just driven and put away wet. It appears original to me but I couldn't say.

That protrusion on the front of the snout of the casting is not something the original Bendix cylinders had. It is probably an EIS or a Wagner. My old work's master cylinders had a conical area cast in that area for fixturing when the casting was being machined.
Bendix was always flat in that area, they apparently fixtured them differently for machining than the aftermarket companies do.
I couldn't tell for sure from the pictures if the pistons have the groove for manual pushrod retention. If you look inside the hole closely it should be apparent. Here is a diagram showing how the pushrod is retained. Mopars use a hard rubber ring for a retainer.

Not sure if this any help, but would like to point out that the 1970 MTSC has 'replacement' master cylinder numbers.
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/274/page13.htm

and going back further, the 67-3 shows a flat front disk brake master.
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/232/Page10.htm

Granted appearance in service manual of MTSC is not proof of actual use for particular, make, model year...

Also, the magazine articles reprinted by Brookland show both '67 and '69 Barracudas with bail type flat front MC. Can we deduce anything from that in terms of timeline?