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Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case #1890725
08/13/15 12:44 AM
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JL2 Offline OP
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Man I am always full of ignorant questions because I read about, ask questions about whatever I need to know on my Mopar. The frustrating part is I get left, right, up & down answers which mean to me who has the correct answer and why is the other guy wrong. Well now I have been around the block on this question with different answers, so now I will ask ya'll, Mopar lovers who I know will give me the best answer. When changing the pinion yoke on my 489, is it necessary to replace the crush sleeve, or crank the nut to take up any play on the pinion? Thanks.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1890737
08/13/15 12:55 AM
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For a 489 the right answer is to replace the crush sleeve and sneak back up on the torque---that's how the unit was designed. Many people have replaced a yoke seal by simply stamping nut position and returning to same.

The problem with replacing the entire yoke, with the above method is that the point of reference is lost.....you're screwed.

Without pulling the pig you're ability to return to proper bearing pre-load, with a new yoke, is almost impossible.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1890754
08/13/15 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Man I am always full of ignorant questions because I read about, ask questions about whatever I need to know on my Mopar. , so now I will ask ya'll, Mopar lovers who I know will give me the best answer.
(1) ask a hundred Q's, thats our purpose in life (here on Moparts) (2) yes we have the best answers!


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1890832
08/13/15 08:46 AM
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Pacor is correct for by the book replacement. But if you are replacing just the seal, the punch marks for reference work just fine. A different yoke makes the punch marks useless though.
Why are you changing the yoke? Maybe just get a conversion u joint?


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1890975
08/13/15 01:07 PM
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Changing the yoke you should replace the crush sleeve, the fact that you are asking the question in the convoluted way you are tells me it's a tad above your paygrade , sorry if that offends you .

There are ways around it but it doesn't sound like you are up to the task if you think you can just tighten it up till the play goes away. I know a guy that did that and I had to deliver a rear chuck to him 200 miles from home ...

The bad thing is you have to completely disassemble the rear to change the sleeve.

Just use a conversion u joint .

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JohnRR] #1890988
08/13/15 01:42 PM
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Yes, we have the best answers here on this board. There is so much ignorant crap floating around out there that it's refreshing to get a real answer here. Sometimes we do get lost or take the long way around, but the tech is good.

JRR's answer will get you on the right path.

R.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891016
08/13/15 02:26 PM
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don't tell my friends and family (HAHA) but i did exactly that on my 489 case. took the pinion nut off to change the yoke, put it back on where i thought was the right spot and this is what happened. yea, that's both caps.





Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JohnRR] #1891033
08/13/15 02:52 PM
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Thanks for the answers guys, it really helped me understand that was not what I wanted to hear, but needed to hear. I am not capable of doing that job personally but could probably find someone who will not rob me to badly to get it done.
The reason that I am wanting to change the pinion yoke is that I installed a 727 and slip yoke needs to be changed to the bigger one that fits, and I thought that if I didn't use the same size u-joints throughout the shaft that I would have a weak spot, even with a cross u-joint at the pinion. I do have decent traction so I wanted to try to do it right without tearing into the third member. So who makes good strong cross joints?

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891045
08/13/15 03:20 PM
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alright, let's get this straight. driveshaft - large or small u-joint? slip yoke - large or small? pinion yoke - large or small? we need more details. you might just need a pair of conversion u-joints to solve your problem.


i used one of the conversion u-joints, large one side, small on the other, and it worked great for years. even drag raced with it and it never failed (mid 11 sec. 1/4 mile)

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: joelson6] #1891060
08/13/15 03:41 PM
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Everything is small but at this moment I don't have the u-joint number. I had a 904 that busted and went with a 727, so my slip is now too small and drive shaft too long, so I was gonna go with larger u-joints.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891095
08/13/15 04:42 PM
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Smartest answer is to replace the crush sleeve with a spacer and shims

http://www.manciniracing.com/man834ax489c.html

Especially if you plan to do a gear change or whatever in the future. It's a bit more expensive than a new crush sleeve, but not that much more so consider it and talk to your mechanic about which he'd prefer from a labor aspect.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1891105
08/13/15 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Many people have replaced a yoke seal by simply stamping nut position and returning to same.

The problem with replacing the entire yoke, with the above method is that the point of reference is lost.....you're screwed.


Not really, the depth gauge end of calipers can be used to compare the thickness of the old yoke and the new yoke. If the new yoke is thinner, just tighten the nut a little bit more depending on the difference; if the new yoke is thicker, just tighten to the punch marks.


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891211
08/13/15 07:25 PM
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If you want to get really technical...

The yoke can be changed but you need to measure the turning torque of the axle (drums off!) and write that number down. Then change the yoke, tighten the pinion nut untill you match the measured turning torque AND reach minimum torque spec on the pinion nut. If you reach turning torque before tightening torque your stuck though, it must come apart for a new crush sleeve (the old one has collapsed too far)

There's lots of extra friction when spinning the diff and shafts so you need accurate and repatable torque wrench for rotating torque.

Due to the gotchas in this process,I don't reccomend it.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891433
08/13/15 11:09 PM
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i got the crush collar eliminator from DrDiff when i did my gears. also ordered a new driveshaft with 1350 u-joints and new trans and rear yoke from strange. everything from strange ran about 650 bucks. it's probably no difference in price for the 1350 or 7290 u joint driveshaft.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891458
08/13/15 11:43 PM
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Haven't you guys learned how to re-use a crush sleeve yet? Take the sleeve, slide it on a piece of pipe, tap around the crush area with a hammer. This will elongate the sleeve making it able to crush again. Reinstall it, torque to spec, good as new. We're only talking thousandths of an inch here.


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891494
08/14/15 12:44 AM
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You know I hate making it sound like a big deal about a crush sleeve, but I do not have a clue on this, as you are aware of. Can it be changed from behind the pinion yoke or does the ring and pinion have to come out and go in that way? I can't seem to find a breakdown diagram on this. Thanks again.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891535
08/14/15 01:33 AM
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I mighta missed something (didn't read all the posts!) but if a conversion ujoint (one or both) will take of this I would absolutely go that route as opposed to pulling the pinion yoke. there's no (weakness) downside to that


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891583
08/14/15 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted By JL2
Thanks for the answers guys, it really helped me understand that was not what I wanted to hear, but needed to hear. I am not capable of doing that job personally but could probably find someone who will not rob me to badly to get it done.
The reason that I am wanting to change the pinion yoke is that I installed a 727 and slip yoke needs to be changed to the bigger one that fits, and I thought that if I didn't use the same size u-joints throughout the shaft that I would have a weak spot, even with a cross u-joint at the pinion. I do have decent traction so I wanted to try to do it right without tearing into the third member. So who makes good strong cross joints?


There are 727's that use the small u joint also ...

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: ruderunner] #1891584
08/14/15 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted By ruderunner
If you want to get really technical...

The yoke can be changed but you need to measure the turning torque of the axle (drums off!) and write that number down. Then change the yoke, tighten the pinion nut untill you match the measured turning torque AND reach minimum torque spec on the pinion nut. If you reach turning torque before tightening torque your stuck though, it must come apart for a new crush sleeve (the old one has collapsed too far)

There's lots of extra friction when spinning the diff and shafts so you need accurate and repatable torque wrench for rotating torque.

Due to the gotchas in this process,I don't reccomend it.


HOGWASH ... just snug it down and yer good to go ...

drinking

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891586
08/14/15 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted By JL2
You know I hate making it sound like a big deal about a crush sleeve, but I do not have a clue on this, as you are aware of. Can it be changed from behind the pinion yoke or does the ring and pinion have to come out and go in that way? I can't seem to find a breakdown diagram on this. Thanks again.


The chuck needs to be disassembled , the sure grip has to come out and the pinion has to come out , to get to the crush sleeve .

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JohnRR] #1891725
08/14/15 11:15 AM
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The output shaft on this 727 is larger than the 904 that I pulled out so I figured that since I need to change the slip yoke, I may as well go stronger all the way.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1891881
08/14/15 04:03 PM
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If you do replace the crush sleeve be aware that they sometimes take a disturbing amount of torque to begin crushing. Once they begin moving it gets much easier to do.

The last one I did was ugly. Pneumatics wouldn't touch it. I'm sure you could have done it with an industrial 3/4" drive but I don't have one.
The torque required was bending my steel table. I had to put a jack under the table mounted vise, clamp the yoke in the vise, put a 4' long black pipe over the ratchet handle, and test the lifetime warranty on the tools. I had been pulling hard on the pipe with no results. Then, I cleared the floor behind me (landing zone if something broke and I went flying) and laid into it HARD. It went but wasn't happy about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T8ZG5DKsi0


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1892155
08/14/15 11:49 PM
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joelson6 Offline
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that's crezy

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: joelson6] #1892160
08/15/15 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted By joelson6
that's crezy


Well maybe, but it is what it is, and I agree about getting the sleeve to begin its crush can be a task. I used a 4 foot cheater and a MAJOR vise at work to get the job done.

Would never do it again, solid spacer only if dealing with a 489.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: feets] #1892164
08/15/15 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted By feets
If you do replace the crush sleeve be aware that they sometimes take a disturbing amount of torque to begin crushing. Once they begin moving it gets much easier to do.

The last one I did was ugly. Pneumatics wouldn't touch it. I'm sure you could have done it with an industrial 3/4" drive but I don't have one.
The torque required was bending my steel table. I had to put a jack under the table mounted vise, clamp the yoke in the vise, put a 4' long black pipe over the ratchet handle, and test the lifetime warranty on the tools. I had been pulling hard on the pipe with no results. Then, I cleared the floor behind me (landing zone if something broke and I went flying) and laid into it HARD. It went but wasn't happy about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T8ZG5DKsi0



I have a 3/4" HF ratchet just for that when I was doing Jeep axles all of the time. Boy does that ratchet make all the difference...


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: JL2] #1892721
08/16/15 12:38 AM
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If you are going to go through the trouble of having to disassemble the whole pig just to replace the crush sleeve then replace it with the solid tapered spacer from ratech or mancini and be done with it. They usually come with the small shims so you can dial in the preload on the pinion bearing.

Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: Sixpak] #1893597
08/17/15 03:14 PM
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I missed the obvious that with the 727 being longer you will have to have the shaft shortened/balanced. I'd get the front yoke (& a conversion ujoint if the yoke you locate is a 7290), correctly measure the C to C dimention to give to them (rear loaded/car reasonably level) then shaft butted & subtract 3/4". spicer precision neapco are reportedly good ujoint brands with spicer being my #1 choice. there's no downside to the conversion joint. Ma's super stocks ran fast in the quarter in the 60's with 7260's/no issues & it being half an half ain't a problem


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Re: Crush sleeve usage on a pinion yoke 489 case [Re: RapidRobert] #1894049
08/17/15 11:54 PM
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Why does everything always have to be the hard way??? shruggy
If you took out a 904 that means its a small block...in stock form their not notorious for being torque monsters. twocents
Get the 727 yoke for the small u joint...set it 7/8th's of an inch from bottoming out in the trans...measure and order a new shaft with small joints on both ends. up
Any 8 3/4" pig is kind of like a sleeping dog...don't F with it...especially when your not sure what your doing. tsk


...FAFO...
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