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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187628
01/08/09 03:48 PM
01/08/09 03:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,859
Witness Protection Program
Kudakidd
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,859
Witness Protection Program
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Quote:
The one I am lookin at is a 2 hole spacer (obviously 6 hole, but 2 per carb) It is also a 1". Thsts considered closed right?
In my mind yes. An 'open' would be just one large open hole the same size as the carb mounting pad.
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: Kudakidd]
#187629
01/08/09 04:01 PM
01/08/09 04:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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There was a very comprehensive 6pack tuning thread awhile back,if you didn't see it you might see if it's still available
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#187630
01/08/09 04:24 PM
01/08/09 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
There was a very comprehensive 6pack tuning thread awhile back,if you didn't see it you might see if it's still available
This could be what your refering to...I saved it...
Dayclona typed this all out..
Setting up a Sixpack
I have to agree strongly with Mike(HPMike) I've been running six pack inductions for about 30 years now, sm blk, big blk, and even the custom 6 pak cast HEMI intake manifolds that I made for the 71 wingcars,.....I don't have anything but, sixpack cars,,,,,,,,I've rebuilt countless numbers of carbs, along with countless installations and tunings,....when there are troubles, it usally due to someone unfamilar with there tuning or functions, or attempts at trying to improve them,......which usally results in "problem" carbs, starting, stalling, flooding issuse!.....seeing your have "new" carbs/ set-uo,....I'd recommend you use a Carter street pump, don't use rubber hose, it's problems down the road!, use a factory style/ repro steel, or stainless steel fuel line kit,a good quality hi flow fuel filter, AFTER the pump!, not before!, you'll restrict the fuel flow, Factory style linkage, no junk progrssive/ mech linkage!, change out the brass side float screw on the fuel bowls (all 3 bowls) with Holleys clear sight plugs, this way you can see your float level, and no gas spills trying to adjust, their like $4 each,.....when setting the fuel level, I've found that it's best to bring it up to half the height of the clear sight plug, (can't do this with the brass sight screw!, unless you have X-ray vision, hence the need to install the clear plastic sights).....plus "if" you ever have a starting problem, just shaking the car side to side will slosh the fuel in the clear site, and you'll know wether or not you have fuel in the bowl,....after you have basically installed the set-up, and started the car, and set an acceptable idle after warm up, with the engine running, set the floats, start with the center carb, the slotted screw on top of the float adjuster, is just a lock screw, you can remove it for now, the 5/8" nut is the adjuster/needle seat nut, rotating it counter clockwise will raise fuel level in the bowl, clockwise will lower it, make small 1/2 turns let the car run a bit, check the fuel in the clear site window, half the window is ideal height, esp. in the front and rear carbs, when they dump in, you don't wanna lean the engine, which on a sixpack car, might "melt" a piston or two!....really!, been, there, done that!....after you set the fuel level in all 3 carbs, reset the idle on the center carb, by disconnecting the linkage on the end carbs, if your using an idle solenoid, make sure it's energized in the up position contacting the center carbs solenoid idle arm screw, set the desired idle, that keeps your car running, factory specs are a guide line, your cam, vacumm, etc, will affect your desired RPM range, after you establish this idle, this is what your car will run with, now de-energize the solenoid, using the idle srew located on the ceter carbs main throttle shaft, set the idle to a bare minimum running idle, this is were your throttle shaft will close down too when you shut off the car, and the idle solenoid de-energizes, if later you have shut down problems of the car desieling, (sputtering run on after shut down) keep lowering the idle screw on the center carb main shaft, untill this is condition is eliminated, the idle solenoid was added to maintain an idle, and allow the throttle blade to choke off the engine on shutdown if needed, when it de-energized, after your center card idle is set, now comes the fun, start the car, in idle, the front and rear carbs are still disconnected at their main throttle linkage, (important note: make sure no vacumm source is hooked up to the front and rear carbs when main linkage is disconnected, cause any reving you may do, might tip in a end carb! with vacumm!, and if you can't shut it down in time, you might lose an engine!....seen it done!)to properly set the fuel/ air mixture idle screws, start with the center carb, hook up a tach.......warmed up, good idle (low)....turn the fuel/ air mixture screws (2) located on each side of the center carb metering block, do one at a time, run it in slowly, until the engine begins to stumble, slowy back it out watching the tach needle, stop when you've obtained the highest rpm reading,....you can also do this with a vacumm gauge attached to MANIFOLD vacumm, I like to use both at the same time, ...repeat the process for the other side, when done, now re-do-it, again, just to confirm settings, now some of the end carbs, have their fuel idle screws "plugged" with lead, they are located in the base, in the front of the carb base plate, under the bowl, if plugged, dig out lead plug, most people think ones for fuel, ones for air , their not!, you'll adjust these screws just like the center carb, except you can't just use a vacumm/ tach gauge,....look into the top of the front end carb, you see 2 small projections in each bore on each side, just below the neck, these are the air bleeds, block off the outer bleed using your finger over the small tiny hole, with the motor running at idle (low), it should stumble or pick up in idle, when you block off, either outboard bleed, set the front carb first, pick a bore, left or right, with it's coresponding baseplate idle screw, block the bleed off with your finger,(make sure the carbs throttle plate is fully closed) do one side at a time, when you block the bleed, if the idle increases, too much fuel, remove your finger, turn the base screw on the side your blocking the bleed on, in, one turn, block the bleed again, listen for the idle, (you could use a tach gauge at this point), if it stumbles/ decreases, no fuel, back the base screw off a half turn, block the air bleed again see where the "idle" is,......keep adjusting in this fashion until there's no change in idle, no increase/ decrease, you now have the ideal fuel/ air ratio for the vacummm requirement on your motor, complete this for both sides of the front carb, shut off the motor, disconnect this carb remove it, re-install it in the rear,....install the rear carb, now in the front, adjust this carb like you did to the last one, after you hook up everything, now here's when most guys will balk at this move,....they'll insist the air/fuel mixture won't be 100% by moving the tuned front carb to the rear, well if your truly familiar with the sixpack set-up, you know getting to the rear carbs base screws is fustrating to say the least, unless your squeezeing every ounze of effeciency out of the motor, this technique is far better than leaving the factory setting/ lead plugs in, with is usally a lean set-up,,,,,,, after setting this relocated carb up, if you wish you can "play" trying to "tweak" the rear carb, this may include a round of removal the "tweak" the screws to obtain that last ounze of "tuning", I've yet to see a "tool", truly capable of fitting into the installed rear carbs "idle screws"......anybody?,
Well, when your "done" setting the air/ fuel "idle" mixtures on the end carbs, connect the end linkages, to the end carbs, do it with the idle solenoid energized, the rods are threaded were they join together on the center carb, they install on the end carbs with rod clips, there is a F/R or left?right handed clip, energize solenoid, do the front carb first, make sure the linkage is pulled far forward on the center carb secondary rail, thread the rod, in or out, until it fits nicely in the hole, then proceed to the rear, repeat this proceedure, now check the linkage for any binding, you should be able to chrack open (engine off!) the center car, WOT, and manually open both carbs by rotating the front carb throttle arm, close the center carb, check all linkage for binding, readjust if needed, now de-energize the idle solenoid, see if any bind is preventing the center carb from closing on the main throttle shaft idle screw, you may have to comprimise on some idle/ and or end carb linkage adjustments to have an ideal, functioning set-up, but once you take the time to do this, you'll appreciate your efforts!,....as far as altering the end carb secondary springs in the vacumm pods,.....I like a sixpack to come in quick,....you'll have to buy 2 sping kits, replace with the "white" springs if you want a quick responding set-up,....if you what a mid range set-up use the "yellow" springs,.....any thing in the brown or black range is worthless.,,,,,Hell I could write a book here, I probally have, if you have any other questions, PM me.......I wrote this for others, to utilize as well,.......
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"Still Winging it" at www.officialdayclona.com
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#187631
01/08/09 04:40 PM
01/08/09 04:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I believe that's it & I'm sure glad that I did not have to type all that. Spacers help in the right circumstances but a spacer is not going to address your hesitation symptoms.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#187635
01/08/09 05:05 PM
01/08/09 05:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
newbee69
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
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Quote:
Quote:
I saved that whole post cause having someone else's tips could be useful in the future...Maybe today... 
You've done your good deed for the year.
Wow! No kidding! Thanks man!
Yeah, to be honest, I pretty much thought that a spacer wouldnt help the hesitation problem. But I figured Id ask you guys what you think about them.
As far as tuning, I think I have covered just about everything in that thread. But Im sure Im missing something.
Ill get it, just gotta keep adjusting till I get it right.
BTW, I like how he mentions that there is no tool that can get to the rear carbs idle mixture screws.  That has always been a hassle. Thanks again guys for the help.
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187639
01/08/09 06:37 PM
01/08/09 06:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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when the throttle is moved a fraction there needs to be a shot of gas out of the nozzle immediately & it gets more complicated with pump shot quantity & duration but I would K.I.S.S(for now) & also WHEN is it hesitating? at idle when you nail it, easy throttle from idle, at speed when you nail it,.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#187642
01/08/09 07:21 PM
01/08/09 07:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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& I wanted to ask if your timing is pretty close to correct as it needs to be right before carburetion as your post sounded like this is a fresh build & you loose some timing from the vac adv can when you get on it but yeah one system at a time but it got me thinking & I had a hesitation that I couldn't pin down until I went back to ported adv/reset my initial & that took care of it. Just thinking out loud.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187644
01/08/09 08:21 PM
01/08/09 08:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Well, Ive got no vac leaks.
Can you share with us how you determined this?
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: BSB67]
#187646
01/08/09 09:20 PM
01/08/09 09:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
newbee69
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, Ive got no vac leaks.
Can you share with us how you determined this?
Well, I inspected all hoses. They seemed good.
Then I made sure all the bolts were torqued to spec.
Then I sprayed carb cleaner by the intake gasket, carb to intake, and anywhere else where I thought a leak could be. No change in idle.
I know its not full proof, but what else could I do?
Just as info, when I hooked up the gauge, Im running at about 14.7. Also, when I cover up the secondary air bleeds, there is no change in idle.
I am idling at about 1000 rpm and when I drop it in gear it goes to about 850.
Does this all sound good to you guys?
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187647
01/08/09 09:39 PM
01/08/09 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,905
Minnesota
3twos
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,905
Minnesota
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What is your engine and is it built up much from stock?
Al & Sheila
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187648
01/08/09 09:44 PM
01/08/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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When you move throttle there is a nice(immediate) steady stream of gas? float level is correct(at bottom of sight plug) What jets are in there? Are your end carbs are vacuum activated? Suggestions (1) disconnect/plug the vac hoses to the end carbs to isolate them from the center carb so we can concentrate on fixing the one center primary carb & (2) richen up the center carb jets 4-6 sizes & see what happens. Holler back when you can. PS I am not sure if plugging the vac lines is needed or will help us but I do want to isolate the center carb to narrow down where the problem is & for sure richen up the center carb for a tryout. Almost forgot what do your plugs look like?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: School me on carb spacers...
[Re: newbee69]
#187650
01/08/09 11:45 PM
01/08/09 11:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, Ive got no vac leaks.
Can you share with us how you determined this?
Well, I inspected all hoses. They seemed good.
Then I made sure all the bolts were torqued to spec.
Then I sprayed carb cleaner by the intake gasket, carb to intake, and anywhere else where I thought a leak could be. No change in idle.
I know its not full proof, but what else could I do?
Just as info, when I hooked up the gauge, Im running at about 14.7. Also, when I cover up the secondary air bleeds, there is no change in idle.
I am idling at about 1000 rpm and when I drop it in gear it goes to about 850.
Does this all sound good to you guys?
This sounds okay. You should cover up the center carb idle air bleeds to see what the effect is on the idle quality. It should not stay the same.
If the squirters are working properly and the idle mixture screws don't fix the hesitation, I would take the center carb off and go through it focusing on the idle and transition circuit.
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