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Replacing Timing Chain #187058 01/07/09 08:40 PM 01/07/09 08:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 303 Virginia Beach, Va wtucker OP enthusiast
wtucker OP enthusiast Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 303 Virginia Beach, Va	Do you need anything special to replace your timing chain, cam and crank gears? The bolt on the cam gear came loose, and the cam gear broke, so I'm not sure where the timing is. Is it just a matter of lining up the marks on the gears. Or does it need to be at TDC, then the gears put on and marks lined up? Do I need a cam degree wheel to degree the cam?

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: wtucker] #187059 01/07/09 08:42 PM 01/07/09 08:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas	If it is a stock set up just align the marks and you are good to go. Crank dot at 12 o'clock cam dot at 6 o'clock.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: wtucker] #187060 01/07/09 08:43 PM 01/07/09 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Don't worry about piston location if you are lining up the dots. That will take care of itself. If you degree the cam you need to TDC it and and need a degree wheel, dial indicator, and pointer. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: MoparforLife] #187061 01/07/09 09:11 PM 01/07/09 09:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 303 Virginia Beach, Va wtucker OP enthusiast
wtucker OP enthusiast Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 303 Virginia Beach, Va	So if I line the OEM dots up I don't need to degree the cam, just put the gears on, line the marks up and tighten it down? What's the purpose of degreeing the cam?

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: wtucker] #187062 01/07/09 09:54 PM 01/07/09 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	More accuracy. If you are not running for top performance lining up the dots is (IMO) good enough.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: MoparforLife] #187063 01/07/09 11:59 PM 01/07/09 11:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't	Call Summit and get their degree kit. It isn't much and has all the stuff you need. If you need help there are plenty of us that can help. Not degreeing the cam in is asking for trouble. Sure a hundred on here will say it has never bit them. But it is like playing with fire. Besides it doesn't take long and it does seperate the men from the boys. If you have trouble getting the eninge to run right later, one of the first things you will be asked is what the cam is degreed at. You will lose a bunch of time by not doing now. I want my fair share

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: SomeCarGuy] #187064 01/08/09 12:26 AM 01/08/09 12:26 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Call Summit and get their degree kit. It isn't much and has all the stuff you need. If you need help there are plenty of us that can help. Not degreeing the cam in is asking for trouble. Sure a hundred on here will say it has never bit them. But it is like playing with fire. Besides it doesn't take long and it does seperate the men from the boys. If you have trouble getting the eninge to run right later, one of the first things you will be asked is what the cam is degreed at. You will lose a bunch of time by not doing now. I say horse manure. I'd bet you money you can't find one engine in a thousand on which the factory keys (on the crank and cam) are far enough off to warrant degreeing a cam. When someone DOES degree a cam, it's to try and improve performance from that tiny bit of factory error, and even THEN it won't do you much good unless you "know what you started with." In other words, even if the cam is a little off from perfect (manufacturer's specs), the fact that it's advanced or retarded a degree or two JUST MIGHT make it run "better" for your application. Also, (generally, don't know specifics) some engines built in the "smog years" had special timing sets OR cams that had retard built in compared to earlier cams for smog control. Line up the marks on the drive, and make sure the drive isn't a "multi mark" performance drive that IS designed to play with cam timeing. Also know that timing drives for these motors ARE NOT "no1 ready to fire", they are "no6 ready to fire." What this means is, that if you line up the marks, and DO NOT move the engine before you plant the distributor, you need to put the dist in to fire no6 One thing that CAN benefit you (so far as errors) is to use a "positive stop" to check the factory timing marks. This will ensure that if you set the timing to X degrees, it the timing will actually be where you set it. This is easy. Cut the crimp off an old plug, and tack weld a 3/8 nut in the back, and stick a 3/8 bolt through the thing so you can adjust the bolt. Insert the plug in no1 plug hole, and rotate the engine with a wrench, gently, until it stops. Make a temporary mark on the wheel under the TDC tab. Do the same in the opposite (CCW) engine rotation. When you get done, you'll have TWO marks some distance apart. EXACTLY in the middle is the "true" TDC.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain #187065 01/08/09 12:33 AM 01/08/09 12:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon M minivan master
minivan master M Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon	First off may I say I have never degreed a cam, but I have never had a race car engine either. My mechanic friend got a timing set for his olds 455 race motor that was so far off ( when lining up the marks) he had to send it back for another timing set.. It does happen...

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: minivan] #187066 01/08/09 01:34 AM 01/08/09 01:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I would degree it, it will increase your skill level & you will KNOW its right & you'll know the procedure when you get into wilder cams. As 440sixpack said a positive stop is very important & if your heads are installed Mancini sells the spark plug positive stop for cheap & I would add a 5 cent green or yellow(I forget which) plastic vacuum cap to the stop to keep from possible nicking the aluminum piston top & turn the timing marks to 5BTDC then screw in the stop until it firmly contacts the piston then turn the crank by hand in the other direction & see if the piston stops at 5ATDC. With that being said I've never(yet) encoounterd an error greater than 1 degree but others have found major machining errors & I dont leave ANYTHING to chance. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: SomeCarGuy] #187067 01/08/09 08:21 AM 01/08/09 08:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: Call Summit and get their degree kit. It isn't much and has all the stuff you need. If you need help there are plenty of us that can help. Not degreeing the cam in is asking for trouble. Sure a hundred on here will say it has never bit them. But it is like playing with fire. Besides it doesn't take long and it does seperate the men from the boys. If you have trouble getting the eninge to run right later, one of the first things you will be asked is what the cam is degreed at. You will lose a bunch of time by not doing now. Horse apples. Look at how many cars are on the road. there isn't a one of them that are degreed from the factory. Heck the assemblers probably don't know what it means. About the only engines that have the cam degreed are the all out performance builds where every little thing is tried to be knats a&& perfect. Not even if you buy a reman engine is degreed. For a driver you won't gain enough to tell the difference in performance or mileage to warrant buying a kit or spending the time to get the job done. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: MoparforLife] #187068 01/08/09 03:06 PM 01/08/09 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 708 Mechanic Falls, Maine 4 4BBodies mopar addict
4BBodies mopar addict 4 Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 708 Mechanic Falls, Maine	Another option for you would be to buy a timing gear set that has 3 slots on the crank gear.........1 for straight up, 1 for 4 degrees advance, and 1 for 4 degrees retard. This is what I did with my 340, with some advice from guys in here (I would probably have better luck degreeing a toaster) and ended up running it straight up. It runs excellent, but I always have the option of going in later and advancing or retarding the gear.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: 4BBodies] #187069 01/08/09 03:15 PM 01/08/09 03:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: I always have the option of going in later and advancing or retarding the gear. & I would suggest checking the V/P clearance at both of those points so no surprises later. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: RapidRobert] #187070 01/08/09 05:53 PM 01/08/09 05:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't	As I said, the men are seperated from the boys by simply doing this. C'mon boys, man up and degree your cam next time. BTW, the Summit kit comes with the spark plug stop.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: SomeCarGuy] #187071 01/08/09 06:18 PM 01/08/09 06:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas	I've built over 500 engines and replaced twice that many timing chains and belts and I guess I'm still a boy because the only ones I ever degreed in were race motors. It's not necessary for a daily driver street engine.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: stumpy] #187072 01/08/09 06:52 PM 01/08/09 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: I've build over 500 engines and replaced twice that many timing chains and belts and I guess I'm still a boy because the only ones I ever degreed in were race motors. It's not necessary for a daily driver street engine. A lot of years and motors behind me. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: MoparforLife] #187073 01/08/09 07:16 PM 01/08/09 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't	Attention to detail is important. Don't kid yourself. Ever wonder why a given car/truck is a dog? Attention to detail. I bet the nondegree crowd sets timing "by ear".

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: SomeCarGuy] #187074 01/08/09 07:25 PM 01/08/09 07:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,921 Grand Prairie,Texas	Doing it my way got me an national ss/b record in AHRA in 1966. Have you set a national record yet? Yeah it was tuned by ear.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: stumpy] #187075 01/08/09 07:45 PM 01/08/09 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,200 Someplace you aren't	This is getting funny. Some of you guys act like degreeing a cam is some sort of high science. I couldn't care less what you did 40 years ago. Giving a rookie advise like skipping simple check work is crap. It takes a very few minutes to due. Not doing it is just plain LAZY.

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: SomeCarGuy] #187076 01/08/09 08:22 PM 01/08/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: This is getting funny. Some of you guys act like degreeing a cam is some sort of high science. I couldn't care less what you did 40 years ago. Giving a rookie advise like skipping simple check work is crap. It takes a very few minutes to due. Not doing it is just plain LAZY. Try for more than 40 years. Experience works. Parts are probably closer to specs now than they were then and it worked then as it does now. You sound like one that thinks that every engine out there off the line has been degreed. Yep I am getting lazier by the year. You will to. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Replacing Timing Chain [Re: MoparforLife] #187077 01/08/09 08:44 PM 01/08/09 08:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,672 Virginia HemiStan top fuel
HemiStan top fuel Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,672 Virginia	wtucker, I live up in Newport News. Shoot me a PM with your number and I can talk you through putting that timing chain in. Stan

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