Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
727 clutch and manual valve body install #1858224
06/27/15 04:10 PM
06/27/15 04:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Just got my upgrade kit for my BB 727. I got the reverse manual valve body WITH low band apply from Tranzact and I also got kevlar bands, HD friction plates, and a rings, seals and bushings kit. Tranzact advertises that their RMVB is designed to work off stock pump pressures, which means less stuff I have to change/replace.

Im starting this thread hoping that some tranny experts will chime in as I go along so I can avoid as many mistakes as possible. I have some experience with transmissions, but this will be my first 727 rebuild. Im following the rebuild instructions in the "Torqueflite A-727 Transmission Handbook; by Carl H. Munroe" It's a 1969 A727 that came behind a 440 C-Body. It's going behind a mild 440 around 550hp and over 500 ft/lbs of torque, with a 200 shot of nitrous (I've been told by some with my tight LSA cam I probably wont be seeing a 200hp increase, closer to 100hp). The whole overall goal is to have a FUN street/strip car that can take a beating.


1st thing I did was build a wooden structure to get the tranny vertical. Next, cleaned the inside and outside of the bellhousing and anywhere else that could possibly contaminate the inside of the tranny once the front pump and valve body are off. got the pan off and the front pump bolts out. Now, I need a slide hammer to take off the front pump (3/8 I believe).

The 1st problem.. my seal and ring kit is labed "1971-On". Pretty sure I have to send it back due to differences in the 1971 and up front drum bushing size and sealing ring style, and also different bushings in the 71-up reaction shaft support. Anything else Im missing?

2nd, Im unsure if I should upgrade the servos. If the stock servos will be ok in this application, I will stick with them.

3rd, I think my tranny has 6 return springs, and can hold up to 15, not sure how many I should install for my application?


Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1858240
06/27/15 04:35 PM
06/27/15 04:35 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
P
Polarapete Offline
top fuel
Polarapete  Offline
top fuel
P

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
That is a lovely piece that you built to do the final assembly of the tranny, but it is working against you when it comes to disassembly.

1) put the pan back on.
2) tighten the 2nd gear band
3) lay the trans on a flat surface on the pan.
4) take all the bolts out of the front pump assembly
5) get a good length of chain with end links big enough to pass a 3/8" NC bolt with a washer. There are two places on the front pump that are threaded for above, assemble your chain to those places and holding one hand on the case, whip the chain and it will pull the front pump w/o a slide hammer.

1st time I used this method was over 30 years ago. Works every time.

I have seen guys do something similar in the dirt at the yard, they just pull the pump bolts, pick up the tranny and drop it. Of course this is only the start of the disassembly, read the book. If you think you need bushings, take the parts to a tranny shop and have them install them while you watch, if possible.


1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Polarapete] #1858294
06/27/15 06:05 PM
06/27/15 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
I agree that that "fixture" isn't ideal, you'd be better off salvaging the wood and making a stand to hold the trans on its back with the pan facing up.

The chain pump puller works or get a couple of lengths of 3/8"-16 all-thread and makes some weights to slide on them.

You need to determine the actual year of the trans, look for the part number stamped in the drivers side pan rail.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1858348
06/27/15 08:21 PM
06/27/15 08:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
barracuda7199 Offline
enthusiast
barracuda7199  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
Thread 2 3/8 bell housing bolts in the holes on the pump and use a small crow bar to bump the pump out. if it is a 69 it should already have the good non controlled load servo on the kickdown band. I would eliminate the cushion spring on the rear servo. They make a spacer but you can stack some washers to do the same thing.

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: barracuda7199] #1858485
06/27/15 10:45 PM
06/27/15 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,076
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,076
Benton, IL.
Drop the valve body and tap the pump housing off from the inside out. I use a long 1/2" extension.

I always use A&A's bearing that replaces the thrust washer between the input and output shafts. I have beat that thrust bushing out on a couple of trannies. You loose 3rd gear just all of a sudden and it requires a near total tear down to replace.


Master, again and still
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1858953
06/28/15 04:21 PM
06/28/15 04:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Yes it's a 69

Driver's pan rail: PK3410669L 3065 xxxx
passenger partial vin: 0C191109

Got some good feedback here for pump removal, thank you. The reason I put it vertical was I was afraid if I laid the transmission horizontal something might fall out of place when I pulled the guts out.

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: barracuda7199] #1858956
06/28/15 04:23 PM
06/28/15 04:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Originally Posted By barracuda7199
Thread 2 3/8 bell housing bolts in the holes on the pump and use a small crow bar to bump the pump out. if it is a 69 it should already have the good non controlled load servo on the kickdown band. I would eliminate the cushion spring on the rear servo. They make a spacer but you can stack some washers to do the same thing.


How thick is that spacer?

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: DaveRS23] #1858957
06/28/15 04:24 PM
06/28/15 04:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Originally Posted By DaveRS23
Drop the valve body and tap the pump housing off from the inside out. I use a long 1/2" extension.

I always use A&A's bearing that replaces the thrust washer between the input and output shafts. I have beat that thrust bushing out on a couple of trannies. You loose 3rd gear just all of a sudden and it requires a near total tear down to replace.


Whats that bearing called?

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1858988
06/28/15 05:03 PM
06/28/15 05:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
master
Dodgem  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
I use this 3/8 threaded rod the two holes are threaded 3 oclock and 9 oclock. pull by slowly tightening nuts down.



Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1859019
06/28/15 05:56 PM
06/28/15 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Yes it's a 69

Driver's pan rail: PK3410669L 3065 xxxx
passenger partial vin: 0C191109


Actually, it's a '70; only a few differences from a '69 and the kit will be the same.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: John_Kunkel] #1859062
06/28/15 07:06 PM
06/28/15 07:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Are you talking about the model year it went into? I was referring to build date being 69, am I wrong?

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1859308
06/28/15 11:18 PM
06/28/15 11:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,076
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,076
Benton, IL.
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Originally Posted By DaveRS23
Drop the valve body and tap the pump housing off from the inside out. I use a long 1/2" extension.

I always use A&A's bearing that replaces the thrust washer between the input and output shafts. I have beat that thrust bushing out on a couple of trannies. You loose 3rd gear just all of a sudden and it requires a near total tear down to replace.


Whats that bearing called?


I don't think there is a part number for it. I just order it by description. You will need to have one shaft machined for clearance. I think it is .060, but ask them how much when you order the bearing.


Master, again and still
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1859499
06/29/15 09:06 AM
06/29/15 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
barracuda7199 Offline
enthusiast
barracuda7199  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Originally Posted By barracuda7199
Thread 2 3/8 bell housing bolts in the holes on the pump and use a small crow bar to bump the pump out. if it is a 69 it should already have the good non controlled load servo on the kickdown band. I would eliminate the cushion spring on the rear servo. They make a spacer but you can stack some washers to do the same thing.


How thick is that spacer?

1/4 inch I do believe. There is an ad in the classifieds on here for a nice billet servo that does the same thing as well as an accumulator with a built in blocker rod that's a nice piece as well.

Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1859699
06/29/15 03:45 PM
06/29/15 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Are you talking about the model year it went into? I was referring to build date being 69, am I wrong?


The model year is what you order parts by.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861683
07/01/15 11:45 PM
07/01/15 11:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
I got the front pump off with a puller made of a 2x4, 2 1' sections of 3/8" #16 threaded rod, some washers and nuts. Thanks for the idea Dodgem. Worked great. Then I removed the shift and kickdown levers from the shift shaft, and the neutral safety switch, and the E Clip that holds the park lock control rod to the valve body. Next I removed the 10 valve body bolts and took off the valve body and the accumulator servo/spring that it retains. Then I removed the front clutch band and components, then the front clutch and the rear clutch.

So I noticed the #3 washer between the input shaft and output shaft has a deep straight groove in it, is that normal? If not, what could have caused it? Picture below.








Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861707
07/02/15 12:24 AM
07/02/15 12:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
barracuda7199 Offline
enthusiast
barracuda7199  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
GEORGIA
It's normal and you have the desirable 4 pinion planetaries. Should have a 4 clutch front drum too. Nice looking trans! What ratio is stamped in the kickdown lever? I run a 4.2 but a 3.8 is good too.

Last edited by barracuda7199; 07/02/15 12:26 AM.
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861734
07/02/15 12:56 AM
07/02/15 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,029
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,029
Oregon
Having an assembly stand is a good idea. I built an adapter so I could hang the transmission from my motor stand. That way I can rotate it vertical or flip it over on its back. I found that being able to flip it end over end made it easy to measure the end play.

tranny std.jpg
Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861788
07/02/15 02:15 AM
07/02/15 02:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Thats a really good idea Andy, do you sell those adapter brackets?

@Barracuda7199, I cannot find a number on my kickdown lever, is it really tiny?




Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861797
07/02/15 02:34 AM
07/02/15 02:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
So, my planetaries are in good shape, the dont wobble on their shaft and clearances are good.

The clearances between the snap ring and the top steel plate in my front clutch are not equal around the whole perimeter of the snap ring, they range from .02 to .04 ish, could this indicate the steels or clutches are warped or have uneven wear?

To get the spring retainer out of the front clutch, I carefully used 2 C-clamps to depress the plate low enough to get the retension ring out. I used 2 pieces of flat metal on the backside to keep the clamp from touching the machined surface that contacts the washer on the front pump.

My front clutch only has 6 springs in the basket, I will be adding the full 15 before I reassemble. Not sure what they are technically called, does anyone know? need to order them ASAP.

Thought I'd throw this in there for anyone who is thinking about doing this, it's good idea whenever you disassemble something to lay them out in order. I also write the order and the name of the piece next to it in pen.

















Re: 727 clutch and manual valve body install [Re: Adam71Charger] #1861826
07/02/15 05:41 AM
07/02/15 05:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
EDITED, non relevant .

Last edited by Adam71Charger; 07/02/15 06:26 AM.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1