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Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: 1965_PLYMOUTH] #184014
01/05/09 09:53 PM
01/05/09 09:53 PM
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toomanymopars Offline OP
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The tires were stock Michelin X highway treads. That had around 25,000 miles on them.. I reinstalled my Mickey Thompson 265's today....problem isn't as severe, but it still tries to do it's death dance.

I did check the balljoints, and they are a little loose. I am going to replace them and have the front end aligned. Everything else is tight. Hopefully that will cure it. Too bad the original balljoints had no way to grease them.

I know that this has 115,000 miles, but they were EASY on road miles. My 97 Ram CTD has 300,000 and a lot of dirt roads and it still drives great as does my 98 Chevy 1 ton with 245,000 miles.

Am I expecting too much for a $30,000 pickup that's led an easy life to be worn out already? I already mentioned that the worthless Hemi uses oil when it pulls hard...but that's another story!

Thanks for everyones help. Most was all good advice.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: DPelletier] #184015
01/05/09 11:37 PM
01/05/09 11:37 PM
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chatham, Ilinois
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fox Offline
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Quote:

With all due respect, there are a number of things that can make the problem go away for awhile, including work described in TSB 22-005-06, but trust me: it's an alignment issue; usually not enough positive caster.

I've been over this a 1000 times and people will still go ahead and buy new (insert here trackbar/balljoints/shocks/tires/whatever) and claim that the problem is "fixed". That's just not the case. No new steering damper or whatever is going to "fix" Death Wobble.....although it may not show up for awhile.

This is nothing new and the Jeep guys have been dealing with this forever. In my impromptu investigation, the vast majority of DW complaints came from guys who used the 2" front leveling kit (guess that changes the caster specs, huh!) and larger load range D tires (usually 315 BFG's) or some other lift kit.

Here's some good reading although I would suggest that some of the reasons listed aren't really the root cause, but rather the weak link (the text points that out in at least one case);


http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/dw.html



+

Dave




You are 1000% correct.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: toomanymopars] #184016
01/06/09 12:58 AM
01/06/09 12:58 AM
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UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:

Am I expecting too much



I have to ask you what do you expect at 115,000 miles. It only gets worse from here. Not to many years ago crossing the 100,000 mile mark was an achievement. Suck it up and get it fixed.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: toomanymopars] #184017
01/06/09 01:19 AM
01/06/09 01:19 AM
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SK,Canada
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Quote:

Am I expecting too much for a $30,000 pickup that's led an easy life to be worn out already? I already mentioned that the worthless Hemi uses oil when it pulls hard...but that's another story!

Thanks for everyones help. Most was all good advice.




Have you changed the PCV valve? That will cause oil consumption if it is plugged/dirty, clean out the cavity where it goes in also.

When I worked at the dealer the stabilizer shocks were common, if the alignment and ball joints don't fix it then try a heavier duty aftermarket stab shock. We had a truck in the shop once with a front end leveling kit and we had a hard time getting rid of it.
Oh and by the way if you made 115k MILES without ball joints you did great. We replaced them lots with 70-100k KILOMETERS which is about 62000 miles.
The ball joints are a weak point, that's why I bought a 2wd, we never replaced them on the 2wds on the new or old trucks..


An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. Thomas Jefferson
Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: gregsrt] #184018
01/06/09 04:02 AM
01/06/09 04:02 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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I have read the death wobble is usually a worn track bar. There are some vendors selling upgraded parts for it.
check out Genos Garage at:
http://www.genosgarage.com

The track bar they sell is $345.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: NITROUSN] #184019
01/06/09 10:17 AM
01/06/09 10:17 AM
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Big Wonderful Wyoming!
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Quote:

Quote:

Am I expecting too much



I have to ask you what do you expect at 115,000 miles. It only gets worse from here. Not to many years ago crossing the 100,000 mile mark was an achievement. Suck it up and get it fixed.




I guess that I am expecting too much. I realize that parts wear out. I also figured that a $30,000.00 Dodge should have been a better truck than my $500.00 98 Chev. Guess that I was wrong!

It appears that the problem is common with these trucks...even with a lot fewer miles than mine has. Sounds like not one individual repair is a guaranteed fix. So far, it sounds like I probably should not only replace the balljoints, but also the tracking bar, tie rod's, etc. And even then, there is no guarantee that the problem will go away! Sounds like good old Chrysler even knows about this. I wonder how many times that an unsuspecting driver has lost control when their good old Dodge decided to dance??????????

My Hemi is well maintained...pcv valve, is good. It is just that in order to get any power you have to keep the RPM's up...these engines have very little bottom end torque. They might be a great engine for a 1/2 ton pickup that hauls groceries, but it was a poor choice to pull a heavy load.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: toomanymopars] #184020
01/06/09 11:22 AM
01/06/09 11:22 AM
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London,Ontario,Canada
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Quote:

My 03 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 has developed an intermittent front end shimmy that I haven't been able to find. It is getting worse to the point that it is dangerous.

Truck has 115,000 highway miles. It shouldn't be worn out by now. I thought that it might be the stabilizer shock...replaced it...still the same.

Rotated front tires to rear....still does it.

All tie rod ends and tracking bar seem to be tight. Truck does not wear tires. Steers straight down the road....you can let go of the wheel and it takes a long time to veer to the side of the road.

It usually happens when you hit a rough part of the road, and it once shook so bad that I lost both front hubcaps...You have to almost stop to get it to quit.

Has anyone else experienced this? My 97 CTD Ram drives perfect and it has 300,000 miles. Are the newer ones that much worse of a truck?

Also, while I am ranting, the 5.7 Hemi in a work truck is almost worthless. No wonder they are such a gas hog when maximum torque is in the 4,000 rpm range and the horsepower that they brag about is at 5,200rpm. This thing also uses a quart of oil every 1,000 miles when you pull it hard. Is that normal, too?
thanks




YUP I KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING THROUGH
My 06 Ram 4x4 at 20,000 miles needed brakes, tierods and lower ball joints.I was told the parts they are putting on these trucks are too light duty!
I'm not hard on a vehicle but DAM! this is way too soon for this to be happening without warranty!

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: toomanymopars] #184021
01/06/09 01:43 PM
01/06/09 01:43 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Am I expecting too much



I have to ask you what do you expect at 115,000 miles. It only gets worse from here. Not to many years ago crossing the 100,000 mile mark was an achievement. Suck it up and get it fixed.




I guess that I am expecting too much. I realize that parts wear out. I also figured that a $30,000.00 Dodge should have been a better truck than my $500.00 98 Chev. Guess that I was wrong!

It appears that the problem is common with these trucks...even with a lot fewer miles than mine has. Sounds like not one individual repair is a guaranteed fix. So far, it sounds like I probably should not only replace the balljoints, but also the tracking bar, tie rod's, etc. And even then, there is no guarantee that the problem will go away! Sounds like good old Chrysler even knows about this. I wonder how many times that an unsuspecting driver has lost control when their good old Dodge decided to dance??????????

My Hemi is well maintained...pcv valve, is good. It is just that in order to get any power you have to keep the RPM's up...these engines have very little bottom end torque. They might be a great engine for a 1/2 ton pickup that hauls groceries, but it was a poor choice to pull a heavy load.





Sometimes I think my posts are invisible or something! I only have two last things to say;

- 1) I've already told you (twice) what your problem is. Fix it and move on.

- 2) at 115,000 miles you can expect to replace (or have already replaced) virtually all front end and other wear components including ball joints, tie rods, shocks, steering stabilizers, u-Joints, etc. I currently own ten trucks including five Dodges, four Fords and one GMC and I've owned dozens more in all brands.......I think you are expecting a little much if you haven't anticipated these maintenance items to need replacing by 115,000 miles. You may have gotten lucky and had better luck with your '98 GMC but that hasn't been my experience. And yes, the Hemi is a little light on torque for heavy towing (hence all the Cummins' powered trucks in my sig)

Cheers and good luck,

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: DPelletier] #184022
01/06/09 02:05 PM
01/06/09 02:05 PM
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Santa Cruz, California
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I had the death wobble on my Ram when it was almost new -15,000 miles.

The shocks were new Bilsteins and the rest of the suspension was stock as well as the tires.

More positive caster fixed it...

PS If you've experienced "death wobble" you'll understand why the name is accurate. Mine was at 85 mph Steering the truck is impossible until the wobble stops.

I suspect it only happens with the wheels pointed straight which is lucky for us and points to an alignment problem. Worn suspension parts probably make it occur more often as Dave said.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: DPelletier] #184023
01/06/09 02:15 PM
01/06/09 02:15 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
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with the diagnosis but I would expect to find it has too much positive caster (forward tilt of the axle) because if it had too little it would tend to wander and follow the crown of the road.

Kevin

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: Twostick] #184024
01/06/09 02:51 PM
01/06/09 02:51 PM
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Quote:

with the diagnosis but I would expect to find it has too much positive caster (forward tilt of the axle) because if it had too little it would tend to wander and follow the crown of the road.

Kevin






The late 90's through 01 4x4 Ram's are notorious for steering wander.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: Lefty] #184025
01/06/09 03:04 PM
01/06/09 03:04 PM
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Kentucky
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My 2004 Ram 2500 did the death wobble thing. I took it to a real good front end shop and found my track bar bushing was worn. I replaced it with a aftermarket that had a poly bushing and also put new tires on it and it has never done it again. It started around 60,000 miles. I think the track bar was a Thuren brand. See Ya!

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: 1962Savoy] #184026
01/06/09 10:57 PM
01/06/09 10:57 PM
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Quote:

YUP I KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING THROUGH
My 06 Ram 4x4 at 20,000 miles needed brakes, tierods and lower ball joints.I was told the parts they are putting on these trucks are too light duty!
I'm not hard on a vehicle but DAM! this is way too soon for this to be happening without warranty!




....I have customers that have gotten over 60K on original brakes on trucks like yours....and they're TOWING!! You are gettin after it pretty hard if you are eating brakes at 20k.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: J_BODY] #184027
01/06/09 11:55 PM
01/06/09 11:55 PM
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toomanymopars Offline OP
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I guess that my question now is, why hasn't Chrysler had to recall these trucks and repair them? (the TSB proves that they admit there is a problem!) Sure, mine has quite a few miles on it, but it looks like this happens to low mileage trucks, too.

First time my truck did this, I thought that I was going to wreck, and it is dangerous to drive. It looks like to be safe I need to replace everything but the radiator cap and it is going to be expensive!

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: Lefty] #184028
01/07/09 03:08 PM
01/07/09 03:08 PM
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Lefty, can the caster be adjusted in my driveway or must it go to the alignment shop? Could you walk us through how to adjust it? Thanks.

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: toomanymopars] #184029
01/07/09 03:48 PM
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Put a Rancho steering stabilizer on it and be done

Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: pro451bee] #184030
01/07/09 04:09 PM
01/07/09 04:09 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

Put a Rancho steering stabilizer on it and be done





OK, OK I give up; yes DW is caused by worn out steering stabilizers: replacing it will fix the problem every time no matter what your alignment settings and condition of the rest of your front end components.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 03 DODGE RAM FRONT END SHIMMY [Re: 340Scamp] #184031
01/07/09 05:42 PM
01/07/09 05:42 PM
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Quote:

Lefty, can the caster be adjusted in my driveway or must it go to the alignment shop? Could you walk us through how to adjust it? Thanks.




I don't have the correct tools needed for the final wheel alignment. I leave some stuff for people I trust that have the right equipment, skills and do it all day long. I have a local guy who works from a shop in his home who does all my cars and truck. He has his garage setup with a pit and alignment rack. Lucky SOB! You can tell he know his work well as you never know what you will see when you roll up. Cool custom hot rods to moms minivan...

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