RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
#1819880
05/06/15 12:54 AM
05/06/15 12:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074 Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Mooresburg, Tn
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Lost my .030" over 440 stock crank engine this week. Basicly starting from scrach on the short block, except for cam and gear drive. Heads are fixable (valves, slight dress up of 2 cyl and the spark plug bosses) Edelbrock RPM's. Cam is MP .590" solid lift. Question is, what are the REAL WORLD pro's / con's of a stock stroke 440 vs stroked 500 RB vs 470 B in regards to block life, horse power, torque, RPM's where the engine wants to run ect. I run two classes simultainously (one 1/4 mile, one eigth mile), easily puting 20 or more passes during the weekend (2 days), so I want to run the engine tune up conservitive. I'm fine with a stock stroke 440, but I'm not putting another stock crank in. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to spend the $'s on a after market crank and not stroke it though. Real world info needed here! Thanks, Brian
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1819972
05/06/15 06:40 AM
05/06/15 06:40 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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The extra torque will increase the stall, especially on the 500, i'm suprised how low you shift with that cam, i shift at 62-300. How many runs were on the motor ? Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1820010
05/06/15 09:55 AM
05/06/15 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The case for going 400 block-For the cost of switching intakes, pushrods and adding a distributor spacer, you gain a huge advantage in strength ,bob weight, and some over all weight reduction. Changing rear gears to cross at 6,000 rpm would be a good move with a 500 cube motor, and the package ought to live an extremely long life, with shift points at somewhere around 5500 rpm. The gear change should bring the launch torque back down to where it was with the 440, but the converter will flash higher and be more consistent if the track gets iffy. Your shift points will be further down track, allowing for a tad more consistency which might be worth as much as .01 or so in consistency. My experience was when I went to an air shifter, and my ETs narrowed up .02 average, running in the nines. I vote for a rear gear change,and a 400B 499 cube package. The rear gear you currently run is probably slowing you down, or at the least just way over revving the motor. No matter what you decide, you can definitely drop the rpm to 5800 to 6200 rpm in the traps (depending on short block size)with the 590 cam and not lose much if any performance.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1820018
05/06/15 10:11 AM
05/06/15 10:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I like the 470 B-block option, if it's not going to cost you a lot more to swap to a low-deck setup. You still running Stage VI heads? That would simplify the intake issue, assuming yours are used w/ the RB spacer plates.
However, I, too, understand the thought about why buy a better quality stock-stroke 440 crank... but that's exactly what I did. My whole combination (gearing, converter, etc.) is built around a 440 RB, but I didn't trust the used OEM crank. So, I replaced it w/ an Eagle 4340 3.75" for peace of mind.
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1820115
05/06/15 11:47 AM
05/06/15 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,726 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,726
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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You are already setup for RB so I would go RB. The advantages of going B are negated by the hassles (and expense) of buying new parts. The strokers have so much more power. You hate to pay the same money to build a 440, unless you are happy with that combo, power, et etc. If it was me I'd go 512 but it's not me it's you.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: rickseeman]
#1820172
05/06/15 12:47 PM
05/06/15 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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JMO.. since you blew up your basically starting from zero.. I would go with the 400 base block and go 499ci or so... the only thing that you really have to change(on the actual build) is the intake.. big deal.. sell it off to help buy a new one.. get the spacer for the dist if you dont feel like getting a new dist.. but the 400 block is a better base... I wished they made a 400 block like the mega when I bought my stuff but they didnt
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1820223
05/06/15 01:58 PM
05/06/15 01:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272
PA.
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My last 440source 500 lasted (275) passes running 8.60's-8.90's in my Daytona before it split the block and I found it during a Winter tear-down. That assemble is still running in a street car today. I have a 512 440source assembly that will be going in a duster in the near future. I don't spend waste any money on fancy band-aids on my blocks so my block machining costs are minimal. If it last 275 runs again I will gladly scrap the block and have another one machined. All my builds have been with 440 blocks.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: davenc]
#1821099
05/07/15 03:19 PM
05/07/15 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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State of confusion
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What RPM do you trap at currently? Are the RPM heads stock port size? If everything stays the same but use a 500 CI short block the HP RPM peak will be much lower than your old 440. Same with the 470, just not as pronounced.
My 470 with stock port RPM heads and a .550 lift cam makes peak HP at 5400. My 470 with slightly bigger than stock ports and a .680 .660 276 281 @ .050 Isky solid roller was still makin power at 6900 on a chassis dyno and pulls real hard on the street and track. And that's with a 40 year old cut down 413 forged crank.......
Last edited by Thumperdart; 05/07/15 03:27 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1823104
05/10/15 12:33 AM
05/10/15 12:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074 Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Mooresburg, Tn
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Thanks for the replys, some really good info to see. I went to look at two different 400 blocks this week, only to find when I got there they were 440's. I bought both of them, so it looks like I'm going back with a RB. That probably will be less hassle than trying to sort out a new combo. I took a block to the machine shop fri and told them to clean it and bore it +.030". If it cleans up there I'll, I'll order the rest of the parts then. As much as I would like to go to a bigger (read stroker) engine, it really isn't what I need. I have a 10.90 car, so no need in putting a 9.90 engine in it. ( actually runs 10.40's in good conditions) I'm thinking build the same engine that I lost, only with a non-OEM crank and possibly Alum mains. Anyone got a good stock stroke aftermarket crank they're willing to part with? Thanks, Brian
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: AndyF]
#1823643
05/10/15 08:29 PM
05/10/15 08:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074 Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074
Mooresburg, Tn
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Get a 3.75 crank from Molnar with the 2.200 rod journals. Then pick up a set of BB Chevy rods that are 7.100 long and then pistons to match. That will give you a lightweight and very strong bottom end that should go a lot of rounds of racing. Andy, do mean 6.760" rods or 7.100" rods? Thanks, Brian
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Re: RB 440 vs. RB 500 vs. B 470 Pro's / Con's
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1823666
05/10/15 08:58 PM
05/10/15 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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He means 7.10 rods. They come with the lighter chev pin, .990, and also have a 2.200 rod bearing which lightens up the assembly a good amount without sacrificing much if any strength.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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