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Re: 904 Lockup Trans Question [Re: John_Kunkel] #1808964
04/21/15 09:39 PM
04/21/15 09:39 PM
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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John I agree that they went to the electronic lock-up with the solenoid for better control of when to lock the conveter since the PCM basically moniters everything. It only makes sense the PCM can control lock-up better then the older hydraulic way. The solenoid is energized when the trans converter locks and deenergizes when it unlocks. My training book even says..................Part Throttle unlock will happen between speeds of 40 to 55 mph. It watches for the manifold vacum to go above 20 inches or below 3 inches of vacum in the 40 to 55 mph range. If this happens the computer (PCM) will deenergize the solenoid which vents line pressure going to the lock-up valve. The lock-up valve then goes to its unshifted posistion and unlock will occur. Lock-up will reoccur when vacum comes back down to 18 inches or up to 5 inches. At those points the PCM will energize the solenoid so line pressure will shift the lock-up valve and lock-up will reoccur.

I am not trying to be a smart a$$ as this is just what it says in one of my Mopar training books. It also says how the solenoid deenergizes at idle and WOT to unlock the converter. I dont mean to offend anyone and I apolligize if I did. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 04/21/15 09:41 PM.
Re: 904 Lockup Trans Question [Re: Evil Spirit] #1809187
04/22/15 03:06 AM
04/22/15 03:06 AM
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5thAve Offline
Doesn't care what this says anyway
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Originally Posted By Evil Spirit
[u][i]
Originally Posted By 5thAve
Originally Posted By Evil Spirit
Originally Posted By 5thAve


This would be the only case in an M body that would have had anything electrical to do with lockup. Right up to 1989 the only thing non-cop ones have is the neutral safety switch and everything else is done within the transmission itself.


Mitchel On Demand wiring diagrams for BOTH '88 and '89 Diplomat SE's show a "Part Throttle Unlock Relay" - receives ground signal from the Spark Control Computer (org/blk wire - plug 1/pin 8), and 3 dark blue wires - 2 provide signal and input 12v+ (same dk blue wire from key that powers the coil, volt reg, alt field, etc.) , and 1 providing the 12v+ output from the relay to the "Part Throttle Unlock Solenoid" in the trans.

So, according to Mitchel, controlling the lock-up electronically started in '88.


Mitchell copied the wrong information right out of the factory manuals and it's not the only wrong bit of information in there. Electrical shows that yet the transmission section has the correct information with the valve and pressure spring and no mention of electronic control anywhere. Trucks might have gone that way but the cars never did.



The Mitchell hydraulic flow chart (Fig 5) also shows the electric lock-up solenoid in the trans in '88.

At this point - my original post was - do electrically controlled lock-up valve bodies exist? YES, THEY DO. Application? NO ONE CAN AGREE (Doesn't matter at this point - we found and bought 2 one wire lock-up V/B's). Better torque converter? NO REPLIES

So our best bet at this point is to just wire a toggle switch to the flippin thing and after we figure out where on and off is, mark it with a sharpie.


The hydraulic chart doesn't mean anything, they would have used one set of charts for the type of transmission and not the application it was going in. If the application doesn't use it they just expect you to omit that information in the manual. The actual description of how it works in the manual and the breakdown diagrams of the lockup components at the vale body do't show the electronic parts. As for application, everyone has agreed that the fuel injected trucks have it. Cars don't. I would take what's been said in this thread over what a Mitchell manual shows.

If was trying to make this work I would get a copy of the factory truck service manual to at least verify the Mitchell information.

John can correct me if i'm wrong but I didn't think under hard acceleration it locks up anyway. Some of those transmissions you can tell when they've locked up by the way it sounds or feels and usually it's when you're already in 3rd gear that it engages.

Pretty much once you've built a 904 to take the power the weakest link is the torque converter snout. After my last 904 died I put a 727 behind my 360 and called it done.

Re: 904 Lockup Trans Question [Re: 383man] #1809490
04/22/15 03:36 PM
04/22/15 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,750
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Originally Posted By 383man
The solenoid is energized when the trans converter locks and deenergizes when it unlocks. My training book even says


Don't see that quote in any of the material you posted. If you'd posted a pic of that quote from the gitgo you coulda saved a lot of bandwidth.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 904 Lockup Trans Question [Re: John_Kunkel] #1809697
04/22/15 09:02 PM
04/22/15 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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383man  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
Originally Posted By 383man
The solenoid is energized when the trans converter locks and deenergizes when it unlocks. My training book even says


Don't see that quote in any of the material you posted. If you'd posted a pic of that quote from the gitgo you coulda saved a lot of bandwidth.



It did not state that in what I posted but I have said it a few times that the solenoid is deenergized with lock-up off and energized with it on. Since no one believes me here is a page where it actually says this info. Ron


Last edited by 383man; 04/23/15 11:09 PM.
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