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Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769233
03/03/15 12:38 PM
03/03/15 12:38 PM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

ive been told both direction, about step headers. some say it has no value, some say they make horsepower. anyone have any information proving or dis-proving claims?


IMO, like many other "innovation's" - over sold. When is the last time you read a new product test done by a car mag that showed the item to be worthless, or at best, no change. Header length, collector size and length, are the game changers.


Fastest 300
Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Crizila] #1769234
03/03/15 06:01 PM
03/03/15 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
Mopar-Al Offline
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I just had mine hand built for my 572 B1 will be testing hopefully this weekend 2 3/8ths equal lenght to 4.5 collector. chassis car 68 dart, launch 45 on brake flash to 6 1250 dom I bought from member here 14.5 comp 180 first 2760 or so with me in it. never was interested in steps

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Mopar-Al] #1769235
03/03/15 07:56 PM
03/03/15 07:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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There have been some very interesting (and for me eye opening) discussions on SpeedTalk about the first tube off the heads. Page two of What is "blow down" length gets right into it.

My one sentence summary is - If there is reversion in the rpm range you care about, keep exhaust velocity high until the exhaust valve closes.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Mattax] #1769236
03/03/15 08:39 PM
03/03/15 08:39 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Every portion of a header has a reason... pulse lengths
(or wave lengths).. things need to happen at a timed
point otherwise you end up with things crashing together..
I TRY to get 1 cyl volume from the valve to the tangent
of the first bend.. the first step is at a point
for a reason.. thats to continue the flow in one direction
and the same for the next step.. the tube sizes are
for the velocity and the size is part of where the
step will be... but understand that if the tubes
arent equal length then it MAY not help at all..
when we build a header its with the idea that the tubes
will be equal.. and at a certain length.. this length
is part of the exhaust timing as is the steps

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769237
03/03/15 09:46 PM
03/03/15 09:46 PM
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Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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read Elston's posts Mr P. I think you'll find them interesting and even useful in a practical way.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Mattax] #1769238
03/03/15 09:59 PM
03/03/15 09:59 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

read Elston's posts Mr P. I think you'll find them interesting and even useful in a practical way.




I have read it

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769239
03/03/15 10:51 PM
03/03/15 10:51 PM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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My " opinion " is that there is power to be gained with a step header..........but you need to build the header to cater to a narrow power band to fully exploit the benefit.
Look at the classes where they are the norm......Comp. and pro stock spring to mind.
Sprint cars and some roundy round guys use them.
Those headers are built with a very specific r.p.m. range in mind.
For a street / strip effort , your gain will be at a cost somewhere.
And for a balls out race car , they are part of a combination of parts that all work together at a given engine speed to deliver maximum performance.
Could you tune them for lower r.p.m. benefits ?
I think yes.
But there is a lot more to it than cutting bends and making sparks , and for anything but a max effort I think they are on the pricey side of the ledger.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: tubtar] #1769240
03/03/15 11:46 PM
03/03/15 11:46 PM
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Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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that's the advantage of incorporating blowdown length into the design - it helps a broader band, especially lower rpm. The manifold experiment/test quoted and linked in that thread convinced me. Not many builders share and discuss as generously as he has.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Mopar-Al] #1769241
03/03/15 11:46 PM
03/03/15 11:46 PM
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NC
440Jim Offline
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Quote:

I just had mine hand built for my 572 B1 will be testing hopefully this weekend 2 3/8ths equal lenght to 4.5 collector. chassis car 68 dart, launch 45 on brake flash to 6 1250 dom I bought from member here 14.5 comp 180 first 2760 or so with me in it. never was interested in steps


What is the length of the tubes you are having built? Longer helps torque, but shorter helps peak hp.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: 440Jim] #1769242
03/03/15 11:59 PM
03/03/15 11:59 PM
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Mopar-Al Offline
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I will have to measure to give a real number for you. The are a lot shorter than my last. These maybe 32/34 just got to see

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Mopar-Al] #1769243
03/05/15 12:59 PM
03/05/15 12:59 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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I think if you are under geared, heavy or under compressed....and/or have a little too tight of a converter they are a real benefit, as Jim's chart shows there is a torque trade/off probably a benefit on any street or dual purpose car overall. But that said there is much more to efficient header design than just the first 6-8" of primary pipe. overall size, Length and Collector size are equally important....like anything else, it depends on the combo.

Even on a bracket car I can see where a step could help keep the car more consistent, basically anything that boosts torque below the torque peak can be useful....provided you can hook it all up

Last edited by Streetwize; 03/05/15 01:03 PM.

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Re: opinions on step headers [Re: 440Jim] #1769244
03/12/15 06:19 AM
03/12/15 06:19 AM
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Brisvegas, Australia
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Quote:

Quote:

Here is the combo so far. 560 aluminum low deck, 12.5 to 1. Zeeker heads (-1) indy tunnel ram. A body should be under 3000 lbs. Manuel trans,and a conservative 3.73 gear. 10.5 slick. do you put the big tube on it to kill off a little bottom end?


Chuck at BEST Machine dyno tested an engine close to that size with a couple pairs of headers. Do a search and see if your engine combo is close to his and the difference it made. As I recall, the really big tube headers made more peak HP, and lost torque below about 5900 rpm. With a high stall converter, you will hardly see that at the drag stripe.

EDIT: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8276607
1) 2.125 straight tubes
2) 2.125 stepped to 2.375 then to 2.500 big tubes




What would be an interesting addition to that chart is some 2.375 & 2.500 sized straight tube headers too

If anything the tubes should get smaller as the gas cools along the pipes - but logic and physics rarely mix

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