Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Something hitting, can't tell what... #1763980
02/26/15 09:51 PM
02/26/15 09:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
Installed a Turbo action 10" converter, using a B&M neutral balance flex plate and ARP 12pt 7/16 converter bolts.

Can't tell what it is,thought maybe the bolts were hitting the edge of the pan but can't find any witness marks.

Here's a video if it helps, this is the second time I've installed the engine and trans in the last month...at my wits end with this,hoping someone here had the same issue and found the problem.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/hotstik440/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20150226_172712_zps7bnejaii.mp4[/IMG]

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763981
02/26/15 10:11 PM
02/26/15 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 43
1
1974Cuda360 Offline
member
1974Cuda360  Offline
member
1

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 43
I'm familiar with that sound. What you're hearing is the torque converter bolts hitting the webbing on the engine block. If you check your torque converter bolts, you'll probably find out that they are loose. I've done a lot of research online over the years trying to figure out why some people have this problem and others don't. You should try using Loctite and re-installing the bolts. If that doesn't work, you might have to have the bolts drilled and install lock wires to keep the bolts from backing out. That's what I did and it was the best thing I could of done to fix the problem.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: 1974Cuda360] #1763982
02/26/15 10:22 PM
02/26/15 10:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
Thanks, but I just reinstalled the bolts with the engine and transmission out of the car.I tightened them as much as possible until it spun the engine and used Permatex thread sealer gel. Couldn't get a torque wrench on them.Today is the first startup since.
I can't see any marks on the bolts, maybe I'll try painting the heads to see what's up.

Is there anything else it could be?

I ran a stock converter with 5/16 bolts and never had a problem.I haven't measured them both yet,but they look about the same.Tired and cold and done for the day, will check it out tomorrow.

Is there a set of bolts with a thinner head than the ARP's?

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763983
02/26/15 10:26 PM
02/26/15 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 43
1
1974Cuda360 Offline
member
1974Cuda360  Offline
member
1

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 43
Are you using the right bolts? The head of the correct bolts is thinner than normal bolts.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763984
02/26/15 10:31 PM
02/26/15 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
B
bboogieart Offline
master
bboogieart  Offline
master
B

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
My guess.
Tight enough to turn over the engine isn't tight enough.
Lock the flexplate with a vice grip or a screw driver to hold the converter in place.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: bboogieart] #1763985
02/27/15 12:48 PM
02/27/15 12:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,367
Iowa
burdar Offline
Owen's Dad
burdar  Offline
Owen's Dad

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,367
Iowa
Also, make sure the bolts aren't bottoming out against the converter. It's possible the bolts are too long and the head of the bolt might not be tight against the flexplate.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: burdar] #1763986
02/27/15 02:50 PM
02/27/15 02:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Also, make sure the bolts aren't bottoming out against the converter. It's possible the bolts are too long and the head of the bolt might not be tight against the flexplate.


Let us know what you find


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: Cab_Burge] #1763987
02/28/15 03:28 PM
02/28/15 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
Thanks,will do, just waiting on it to warm up and get a day off.

Bought a white paint pen to paint the bolt heads and see exactly where they making contact.I figure ARP bolts are harder than the block so it wont make any marks on the bolt faces.

The only two bolt sets Summit sells in 7/16 are ARP and TCI,which are both 1/2" long under the head but they give no specs for head thickness.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763988
02/28/15 06:51 PM
02/28/15 06:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
Ok, I painted and numbered all four converter bolts and ran the engine for at least 10 minutes...not one scratch on any of them!

I put my ear up against the oil pan and it sounds like something is knocking on the pan.
I did weld in sheet metal baffles, but after the fist time I had this issue I cut out the front section in line with the windage tray because I thought the crank was rubbing the baffles.


I did not hear this before I did the baffles and converter,nothing else has changed.

Could it be rod knock? Failed bearing? I inspected the oil very closely and not a speck of metal in it,clean as it was out of the bottle.
The windage tray had at least a 1/2" cleareance to the crank and rods. Whatever it is doesn't seem to change the way the engine runs but the noise is driving me crazy... what am I missing here ???

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763989
02/28/15 06:55 PM
02/28/15 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
Run it again. Put your fingers on the side of the pan and see if you can feel the same pattern as the sound.

The other option would be to use a piece of tubing as a stethescope and listen for the noise in the pan.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763990
02/28/15 06:56 PM
02/28/15 06:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Rod knock is more of a thunk, thunk, thunk and not a ting.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: feets] #1763991
02/28/15 07:03 PM
02/28/15 07:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
Quote:

Run it again. Put your fingers on the side of the pan and see if you can feel the same pattern as the sound.

The other option would be to use a piece of tubing as a stethescope and listen for the noise in the pan.




I did feel it all over,even put my ear against the pan,can't even pinpoint where it's coming from.

It is a very tinny sound...makes me think very light contact but infuriating.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763992
02/28/15 07:44 PM
02/28/15 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,358
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,358
Omaha Ne
Quote:

I did not hear this before I did the baffles and converter




My bet is on the baffles


Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763993
02/28/15 07:47 PM
02/28/15 07:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,797
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Online content
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Online Content
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,797
Rio Linda, CA

When you installed the converter to the flexplate how much pull-up was there? IOW, with the converter pushed as far as it would go into the trans, how much air gap (pull-up) was there between the drive lugs and the flexplate?

If little/none the converter bowl could be rubbing the pump casting.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: TJP] #1763994
02/28/15 07:49 PM
02/28/15 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
Quote:

Quote:

I did not hear this before I did the baffles and converter




My bet is on the baffles






That's why I suggested listening to the pan. My money is on the baffles too.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: feets] #1763995
02/28/15 08:01 PM
02/28/15 08:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
KnuckleDuster Offline OP
top fuel
KnuckleDuster  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,723
North Austin
The only baffles left are a small dam at the rear of the sump,covered by the windage tray. They are welded in and don't move.

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: feets] #1763996
02/28/15 09:01 PM
02/28/15 09:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
S
Sxrxrnr Offline
pro stock
Sxrxrnr  Offline
pro stock
S

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
As the man said: "When hearing hoof beats think horses not zebras"

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: KnuckleDuster] #1763997
02/28/15 09:16 PM
02/28/15 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,358
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,358
Omaha Ne
Quote:

The only baffles left are a small dam at the rear of the sump, covered by the windage tray. They are welded in and don't move.




Maybe the baffles are tweaking the windage tray and causing the interference???

You have two changes/scenarios, Baffles, or converter, bolts, flex plate and/or bolts ETC. Your description sounds more like a lower end interference with sheet metal IMO. hard to diagnose over a webpage but

I chased a noise several year back that wound up being a rod bolt BARELY kissing the pan. A tweak with a hammer and all was good. The rub mark was BARELY visible to the naked eye but it was NOISY!!! Good luck and keep us posted

Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: TJP] #1763998
03/01/15 03:09 AM
03/01/15 03:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,210
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
I Live Here
SomeCarGuy  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,210
Someplace you aren't
Do you have the stone shield installed? I had one that was cracked and would fall back intermittently into the convertor area. Made strange sound no fewer than 10 pro and advanced shade tree mechanics declared was everything from a dying engine to fried trans. You had the trans pulled so maybe it was damaged.


I want my fair share
Re: Something hitting, can't tell what... [Re: SomeCarGuy] #1763999
03/01/15 01:16 PM
03/01/15 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,668
Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR Offline
master
I_bleed_MOPAR  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,668
Buford, GA
^^^^^^
This.

The small shield on the 383 would rub the converter bolts. Had to flatten a rib on it to stop the noise. I know you painted the bolt heads but maybe the shield is hitting the flex plate or converter?


'71 Charger 383/727
'17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car wink )
Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1