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Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173378
12/23/08 01:31 PM
12/23/08 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
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OP
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I was thinking "what if" we could go back to the old class racing with a heads up start but with different et's groups as in 9.0, 9.5, 10.0. These are just examples but it seems like no one likes the stagered starts of bracket racing. Lets hear your ideas on how we can get drag racing on a UP SWING instead of the decrease in the sport and stands. Maybe we could get some of the tracks into the idea so they can survive and make it enjoyable to all of us 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173379
12/23/08 01:35 PM
12/23/08 01:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 842
Baltimore,MD
Bill_LBSR
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 842
Baltimore,MD
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Alot of those classes are out there. I think next year at racetracks around here there will be 8.50,9.50,10.00 and 12.50 index classes.
LBSR
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Bill_LBSR]
#173380
12/23/08 01:39 PM
12/23/08 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
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master
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Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
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They have been doing that here. Sometimes only on TNT nights, sometimes in conjunction with the regular brackets.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: max_maniac]
#173382
12/23/08 02:03 PM
12/23/08 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
I really think there is a place for that kind of racing that would be enjoyable for racers and spectators but it would have to be old style in my opinion. By old style I mean foot brake, no electronics, no trans brakes or buttons and no digital systems with lap top adjustments to make the car run what you want 
I can understand the no electronics but I dont
think the trans brake is a issue, you still need to
hit the et for your class.... JMO
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173384
12/23/08 02:06 PM
12/23/08 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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They already have those classes, S/C(8.90), S/G(9.90), S/ST(10.90). They have been around for a number of years. I dont see why those who wants heads up index racing dont try what is already out there.
BTW there is no rule that states you have to use a throttle stop or delay box. A good racer is a good racer period.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Quicktree]
#173385
12/23/08 02:09 PM
12/23/08 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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Quote:
it's still bracket racing if you can break out  no matter how you do it.
In that aspect it would be but if you didnt have a
ET limit then the guy with the most money wins, thats
why they started bracket racing in the first place.
But from my understanding most people dont like the
stagered start thing.... why is that car sitting there
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#173386
12/23/08 02:10 PM
12/23/08 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
They already have those classes, S/C(8.90), S/G(9.90), S/ST(10.90). They have been around for a number of years. I dont see why those who wants heads up index racing dont try what is already out there.
BTW there is no rule that states you have to use a throttle stop or delay box. A good racer is a good racer period.
 there is really no difference in the way you slow a car down to run an index. wether it is done by weight or electronics. there is only one true way to do heads up type racing
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173387
12/23/08 02:11 PM
12/23/08 02:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
it's still bracket racing if you can break out no matter how you do it.
In that aspect it would be but if you didnt have a
ET limit then the guy with the most money wins, thats
why they started bracket racing in the first place.
But from my understanding most people dont like the
stagered start thing.... why is that car sitting there
then you tell them it's because he has more money
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Quicktree]
#173388
12/23/08 02:15 PM
12/23/08 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
it's still bracket racing if you can break out no matter how you do it.
In that aspect it would be but if you didnt have a
ET limit then the guy with the most money wins, thats
why they started bracket racing in the first place.
But from my understanding most people dont like the
stagered start thing.... why is that car sitting there
then you tell them it's because he has more money
And in the 8.90, 9.90,10.90 classes people think he broke
coming off the line(using the stop), people just dont
like it
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173389
12/23/08 02:18 PM
12/23/08 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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AS I said you do not have to run a Throttle stop to race the .90 classes. In fact some folks are quite sucsessful in S/ST not using an electronically controlled t stop. When the classes first began cars were slowed down like any other index deal, weight, timing, mechanical stop...Like I said there is no rule stating you have to run a Throttle stop. In fact some may argue running lets say 9.90 at 131 might have an advantage over the guys running 9.90 at
175...Arguements are there for both ways.
These are in fact called "heads up index classes" Everyone leaves at the same time, just a matter of how one chooses to run the number. It will still be boring to spectators I suppose because it truly is not heads up fist guy there wins.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Lil Demon]
#173391
12/23/08 02:31 PM
12/23/08 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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Any of the tracks I attend dont have anything like these, its either box or no-box period. I also know the the 8.90 type classes dont have a T-stop ruling. To me I dont care if you add weight to make the class just so its not the electronics box and no down track stutter box. I'm just trying to think out loud
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173392
12/23/08 03:00 PM
12/23/08 03:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
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Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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When Billy Meyer bought the IHRA, he had the foresight to realize that spectators did not like the staggered start of bracket racing. So in addition to Q/R S/R and H/R, Billy also tried a bunch of other index classes to get the bracket guys part of the National event scene, but the racers screamed bloody murder and it was not well recieved and was soon dropped. Another example of Billy Meyer being way ahead of his time. Lets face it, bracket racing is a major snore as a spectator sport and the staggered start is confusing to many. It would be helpful if the cars left together. The huge popularity of NSS, the 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 series in ORSCA, should be a clear sign that this method would be much more accepted by the spectators. Allow all the electronics, what does that matter, just keep a cap on the down track stutter and other things that make the cars look like they died for a couple seconds. It would also help if the bracket racers as a whole were not so against any kind of change. Sooner or later, they must realize that they alone won't keep the local track open and something will have to be done. Some of the best, full tree, bracket racers I have ever seen, have tried the Pro/Tree heads up index stuff at ORSCA and love it and now don't bracket race anymore. Here locally, we have 5k, 6.0 and 7.0 races on the pro tree all the time. Buy backs are allowed, it is basically a bracket race, except on a pro tree, with an index. The major difference between this and a regular bracket race....the stands are full.
Monte
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#173393
12/23/08 03:14 PM
12/23/08 03:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 52
detroit mich
stevehiss
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 52
detroit mich
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i don't race yet but when i go to spectate at the chrysler classics i really like the 10.0 race the best and i notice people really watch the whole run to the end . i don't mind watching the other races unless the et spread is way far apart.the most boring race i watched was a super comp dragster event.people around me was wondering why the dragsters appeared to be letting off the gas every pass
I DARE TO BE DIFFERENT
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: stevehiss]
#173394
12/23/08 03:17 PM
12/23/08 03:17 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173395
12/23/08 03:33 PM
12/23/08 03:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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You need to get some bets going in the stands, thats what brings in the people. At a couple local tracks we have guys that bet on every pass.Passes the time and is very enjoyable to watch some of these guys deal, they hoop and holler every time you come back down the return road, some times good sometimes bad. Bring in the gamblers and the sport will live. Its funny to see a guy with a fist full of cash stompin his feet after you make a pass for winning or loosing. I made it to the finals one time and lost and one of these guys came to me and said thanks for making him some money that night, he said I did a great job and that the car was bad azz. Made me feel welcome....Everyone bets on somthing.We bet just to run our cars, betting we are going to go rounds. The could call it "On Track Betting"....Phill
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173396
12/23/08 04:06 PM
12/23/08 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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I do not understand everyones objection to the .90 thing...Why is it so different than .00 or .60 or .50 SSDI. I can understand loosing the t stop stuff as it confuses theings but if it is all run on a common index who cares..
BTW if anyone really thinks this will put butts in the seats you are nuts.....I have preached a pinks all out style of racing which the crowds get.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173399
12/23/08 05:09 PM
12/23/08 05:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
long island new york
kingdust
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
long island new york
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Atco has a great index series. They run 8.50 10.00 and 12.00. You can count on 30 or more cars for each class,the payouts are pretty good,pro tree,top 16 qualify pro ladder.10.00 class is dot tire 13" max, no tube cars, with 1 power adder. Its become very popular and now e town has been running 8.50 10.00 and 11.00 classes with similar rules. There's also points earned at every race.we run 10.00 with my brothers nova and do pretty well considering we don't make all the races. They usually run thursday nights with the 1st and last race combined with outlaw 10.5. 8.50 and quick 8 on sunday. Good show and its always a lot of spectators.
LIFE IS A LESSON,YOU LEARN IT WHEN YOUR THROUGH!
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Blucuda413]
#173400
12/23/08 05:12 PM
12/23/08 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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The problem with the pro-tree thing is that it makes any yahoo with a car competitive. Anyone can leave off the flash... People watching may like it, heck people who can't drive would even like it, but for those of us who do it for the competition would find it boring. That's what always killed me when they tried the pro-tree thing in NSS years ago. It took the advantage away from the guys that could drive the starting line. Might as well run one car at a time to take the finish line driving out of it too... 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dizuster]
#173402
12/23/08 05:24 PM
12/23/08 05:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
The problem with the pro-tree thing is that it makes any yahoo with a car competitive. Anyone can leave off the flash...
People watching may like it, heck people who can't drive would even like it, but for those of us who do it for the competition would find it boring.
That's what always killed me when they tried the pro-tree thing in NSS years ago. It took the advantage away from the guys that could drive the starting line.
Might as well run one car at a time to take the finish line driving out of it too...
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#173403
12/23/08 05:28 PM
12/23/08 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
The problem with the pro-tree thing is that it makes any yahoo with a car competitive. Anyone can leave off the flash...
People watching may like it, heck people who can't drive would even like it, but for those of us who do it for the competition would find it boring.
That's what always killed me when they tried the pro-tree thing in NSS years ago. It took the advantage away from the guys that could drive the starting line.
Might as well run one car at a time to take the finish line driving out of it too...
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
isn't that the truth 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#173404
12/23/08 05:30 PM
12/23/08 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
The problem with the pro-tree thing is that it makes any yahoo with a car competitive. Anyone can leave off the flash...
People watching may like it, heck people who can't drive would even like it, but for those of us who do it for the competition would find it boring.
That's what always killed me when they tried the pro-tree thing in NSS years ago. It took the advantage away from the guys that could drive the starting line.
Might as well run one car at a time to take the finish line driving out of it too...
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
hey ask sixpackgut how good the quicktree is on a pro tree 
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: dizuster]
#173405
12/23/08 05:40 PM
12/23/08 05:40 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173406
12/23/08 06:09 PM
12/23/08 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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I dont want to resrtict any car weather its a tube chassis or stock, that way if you "fit" in the ET class then you run, not like the NSS where you need this one type of car to race(just a for instance). Just with a few rules to keep things simple
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: weedlayer]
#173408
12/23/08 06:41 PM
12/23/08 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
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In the 35 years or so that I have been racing, the only time I have seen full stands for a bracket race have been either the Bracket Finals or when there was a booked-in show. Back before there were 24 national events a year you could always find a local track running fuel cars, funny cars, pro stockers, or jets/rockets on a bracket night. Fans loved it, racers hated it. The show took too much time because one of the fuel cars always puked. Youn have not lived until you've made a pass right after the "Pollution Packer" rocket car. Around here, the tracks don't even advertise bracket racing. I had raced at RT66 for 5 years and talked to people that didn't even know they had brackets there. When US30 was open everyone knew "SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY!!!!!!!!!".
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: slantzilla]
#173410
12/23/08 08:35 PM
12/23/08 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,217
Wellington, FL
cudabunch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,217
Wellington, FL
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Quote:
In the 35 years or so that I have been racing, the only time I have seen full stands for a bracket race have been either the Bracket Finals or when there was a booked-in show. Back before there were 24 national events a year you could always find a local track running fuel cars, funny cars, pro stockers, or jets/rockets on a bracket night. Fans loved it, racers hated it. The show took too much time because one of the fuel cars always puked.
Youn have not lived until you've made a pass right after the "Pollution Packer" rocket car.
Around here, the tracks don't even advertise bracket racing. I had raced at RT66 for 5 years and talked to people that didn't even know they had brackets there. When US30 was open everyone knew "SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY!!!!!!!!!".
Slant hit the nail on the head.People come to see Pinks because it is advertised on TV and they want to be there.Monte said the 5.0 60. and 7.0 classes do well,but if Orsca didnt have people like Mike Hill and that guy with a turbo mustang( you only see his wife in photo's) there wouldnt be a good attendence there.Sunday Sunday Sunday pounded in your head makes you want to go and having some kind of entertainment like a jet car,big name racer gets people there.I like index,class and bracket racing,but dont think people want to watch me do it. 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: cudabunch]
#173413
12/23/08 09:15 PM
12/23/08 09:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Tim Lynch. The "Lynch Mob". His wife's name is Kelly.  Steve Petty, the tuner, works for Pro-Line race engines. Monte
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#173417
12/23/08 11:00 PM
12/23/08 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 803
Fl. USA
PS Arrow
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 803
Fl. USA
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Quote:
Tim Lynch. The "Lynch Mob". His wife's name is Kelly. Steve Petty, the tuner, works for Pro-Line race engines.
Monte
Tim Lynch also works for Pro line.
As a kid, my Dad I used to go to Lancaster Dragway every Friday night, normal bracket program, the stands would be packed. Since I started racing in the late 80's, it seems there is no draw for the tracks for the local bracket races. Whats the difference from then to now??? Why did it boring? I still enjoy watching the Super Pro and most of the Pro cars run...street class is as it always will be a chance to hit the restroom, get a snack and cruise the pits.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: PS Arrow]
#173418
12/23/08 11:12 PM
12/23/08 11:12 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: kingdust]
#173419
12/23/08 11:55 PM
12/23/08 11:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
If pro tree is so much harder then full tree why do 99% of S/C, S/G, Super Pro, and any other bracket racers leave off the top bulb with a delay box... It's because it's easier, and more consistant.
And I have seen it first hand. They tried going to pro tree in NMCA NSS a few years ago. Like I said, every yahoo that couldn't find their butt on a full tree, all of the sudden had a chance...
I don't run down in your index stuff, but you kind of make my point for me.
"If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat."
How hard can it be if a lot of guys are going 00's and teens every time. Even the best foot brakers in the world aren't that good on a full tree day in day out.
The only pro tree red lights you ever see, is when someone is guessing because they can't run the number to compete...Like I said, it would take all of the starting line competition out of it.
I'm fine with index racing, I've been involved with it for over 15 years. Moving the car to hit the number without electronics can be challenging. (Especially in late rounds during hot lapping) Nothing wrong with that.
And just to be clear, I'm talking about the pro and sportsman classes that draw the large majority of the cars. I just don't see how weaking existing classes would help the sport. That means lower payouts in the existing classes to cover the new ones.
It was the demise of the NSCA...trying to please everyone...
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dizuster]
#173420
12/24/08 12:03 AM
12/24/08 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
If pro tree is so much harder then full tree why do 99% of S/C, S/G, Super Pro, and any other bracket racers leave off the top bulb with a delay box... It's because it's easier, and more consistant.
And I have seen it first hand. They tried going to pro tree in NMCA NSS a few years ago. Like I said, every yahoo that couldn't find their butt on a full tree, all of the sudden had a chance...
I don't run down in your index stuff, but you kind of make my point for me.
"If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat."
How hard can it be if a lot of guys are going 00's and teens every time. Even the best foot brakers in the world aren't that good on a full tree day in day out.
The only pro tree red lights you ever see, is when someone is guessing because they can't run the number to compete...Like I said, it would take all of the starting line competition out of it.
I'm fine with index racing, I've been involved with it for over 15 years. Moving the car to hit the number without electronics can be challenging. (Especially in late rounds during hot lapping) Nothing wrong with that.
And just to be clear, I'm talking about the pro and sportsman classes that draw the large majority of the cars. I just don't see how weaking existing classes would help the sport. That means lower payouts in the existing classes to cover the new ones.
It was the demise of the NSCA...trying to please everyone...
you have a lot to learn
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#173421
12/24/08 12:12 AM
12/24/08 12:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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This tread is very interesting. I think Bracket racing is kindoff boring and I believe the only way of Drag racing is heads up. This is how we do it in Peru: 10 to 10.50 Class A 10.51 to 10.99 Class B 11.00 to 11.50 class C 11.51 to 11.99 Class D 12.00 to 12.50 Class E You guys here have faster cars so you can do 9 and 8 seconds following this logic. So when the track is open, you have 3 passes to test your car and classify. Then everything stops for half an hour and the race begins with the slowest class working the way up to the fastest class. You are only able to reclassify one time. 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Quicktree]
#173422
12/24/08 12:34 AM
12/24/08 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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I cannot believe what I just read...BTW where I come from NOT being able to go red is a bad thing...Glad to hear there is no starting line competition in S/G, looks like I can start collecting my winnings soon.
BTW my experience with .400 Pro Tree racing in many of the guys in the Gas classes has been quite the opposite. Most of the lights I have seen from all but the best guys with good working cars are typically in the .080's or worse.
But then again no matter whether it is top bulb or bottom you had better be leaving off the first flash if not you are doing it wrong. But what do I know...
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: rowin4]
#173425
12/24/08 12:50 AM
12/24/08 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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I frankly dont want it both ways...Just seems like a way to attract some spectators as you can bill it as heads up. Maybe a monthly program, who knows. As for the guys that dont make it in, thats racing. BTW in the All out format they only toss those who clearly are capapble of going faster and messed up by doing so for whatever reason. Might be a good concept for someone to work on as a promoter..All I am saying.
Open Comp stuff is another format that I would think would be more appealing. A couple of qualifying passes, knock off a tenth and then viola you have a dial in for the race that CANNOT change. At least it is more like heads up stuff to me.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Quicktree]
#173426
12/24/08 12:51 AM
12/24/08 12:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
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Dude do you even have a car.You are joking right? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Your joking...right. There is nothing EASY about .4 pro tree racing. Most yahoos, as you call them will be a day late. Have you ever actually raced on a pro tree. If you have and were that good, somebody will give you a car to drive. The 5.0 6.0 and 7.0 classes around here are deadly. If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat.
Monte
If pro tree is so much harder then full tree why do 99% of S/C, S/G, Super Pro, and any other bracket racers leave off the top bulb with a delay box... It's because it's easier, and more consistant.
And I have seen it first hand. They tried going to pro tree in NMCA NSS a few years ago. Like I said, every yahoo that couldn't find their butt on a full tree, all of the sudden had a chance...
I don't run down in your index stuff, but you kind of make my point for me.
"If you are not .00s or teens and dead on, you are dead meat."
How hard can it be if a lot of guys are going 00's and teens every time. Even the best foot brakers in the world aren't that good on a full tree day in day out.
The only pro tree red lights you ever see, is when someone is guessing because they can't run the number to compete...Like I said, it would take all of the starting line competition out of it.
I'm fine with index racing, I've been involved with it for over 15 years. Moving the car to hit the number without electronics can be challenging. (Especially in late rounds during hot lapping) Nothing wrong with that.
And just to be clear, I'm talking about the pro and sportsman classes that draw the large majority of the cars. I just don't see how weaking existing classes would help the sport. That means lower payouts in the existing classes to cover the new ones.
It was the demise of the NSCA...trying to please everyone...
you have a lot to learn
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: 8secDart]
#173427
12/24/08 01:34 AM
12/24/08 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
Dude do you even have a car.You are joking right?
Nope "Dude" I don't even own a car, but I watch pinks every week...
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#173428
12/24/08 01:45 AM
12/24/08 01:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
Glad to hear there is no starting line competition in S/G, looks like I can start collecting my winnings soon.
Have you won more S/G races at the starting line, or the finish line?...
No offense ment at all to S/C S/G racers. They are among the best bracket racers in the world. But those guys win on finish line driving more often then starting line driving... I just looked at the last NHRA national event of the year. The average S/G winning light was .018, not much room to "tree" someone to a win...
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dizuster]
#173429
12/24/08 02:05 AM
12/24/08 02:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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WOW....First off S/G on a Divisional and National level is run on a .385 tree, NOT a .400 tree...Do the MATH. If you can hit the tree there is no race at the stripe period. Since you have a ND handy why dont you compare winning lights to loosing ones? Tell me how many of the loosers broke out. Then again I suspect you may think .90 racers set their cars up to run .90.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: 1976 Aspen]
#173431
12/24/08 02:34 AM
12/24/08 02:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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Well I guess the simple answer would be a delay box and throttle stop. Delay box for the tree and t stop to run the number. Guess maybe I dont understand the question.
I am no expert by any means, just trying to make a point. Anyone asking me for advice on how to win in S/G needs to have their head examined. Heck for the last two years I have been lucky to even have the car at the track.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: Quicktree]
#173432
12/24/08 05:39 AM
12/24/08 05:39 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
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Quote:
it's still bracket racing if you can break out no matter how you do it.
thats how i see it .
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173435
12/24/08 09:22 AM
12/24/08 09:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 803
Fl. USA
PS Arrow
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 803
Fl. USA
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Quote:
Quote:
As a kid, my Dad I used to go to Lancaster Dragway every Friday night, normal bracket program, the stands would be packed. Since I started racing in the late 80's
Lancaster in NY? 
Here is my take on the 10.5 stuff and the high dollar heads up stuff.......Looks like fun...I can't afford it. So if nobody wants to come see me bracket race so be it...the stands have never been filled before and most tracks can still make it on the race program if they are well run and they have some special shows to attract fans
In NY Eric.. I havent been there in years, I think the last time was 1990. You have raced there recently, I have no idea what its like now.
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: slantzilla]
#173438
12/24/08 11:52 AM
12/24/08 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Glad to hear there is no starting line competition in S/G, looks like I can start collecting my winnings soon.
Have you won more S/G races at the starting line, or the finish line?...
No offense ment at all to S/C S/G racers. They are among the best bracket racers in the world. But those guys win on finish line driving more often then starting line driving... I just looked at the last NHRA national event of the year. The average S/G winning light was .018, not much room to "tree" someone to a win...
You really, really don't have a clue. 
Actually I'm good freinds with one of the best S/G S/C racers in the country, we tend to share the same views on this stuff, maybe he doesn't have a clue either, I'll tell him to send his "Wally's" back to NHRA...
Whatever you guys got it all figured out...
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dizuster]
#173439
12/24/08 12:05 PM
12/24/08 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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For the guys that run the so called index racing, if you have 4 or 5 classes what kind of pay out do you see in each class. I would like to see enough classes that everyone can run but also have enough money to where its worth your time to go race
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dizuster]
#173440
12/24/08 12:25 PM
12/24/08 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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Well I can only speak for myself but I am only responding to what you type. Do you really think if someone cuts an .017 lite and the guy in the other lane cuts an .030 lite there is really any racing going on at the top end of the track? If there is the guy who went .017 does not know his car real well does he.
Maybe you should head over to a site full of .90 racers and post the same opinions you have had here and see how they respond. My guess is they will pretty much echo the sentiments on here.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: dizuster]
#173441
12/24/08 12:30 PM
12/24/08 12:30 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173442
12/24/08 12:53 PM
12/24/08 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
MegaDart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
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Quote:
The only pro tree red lights you ever see, is when someone is guessing because they can't run the number to compete...Like I said, it would take all of the starting line competition out of it.
Yep, you need to go back to sanding on that car, all the fiberglass seems to be doing you good, you are clueless 
As Eric said, any good .90 racer sets his car up to go red, then slows it down. Exactly the same way you go at the stripe...
I like your strategy Eric, will certainly try it!
I set up for 9.89x on Saturday, ran 5 in a row last time out. Then big weather change for sunday and needed every bit of it to run a .90.
Quote:
Do you really think if someone cuts an .017 lite and the guy in the other lane cuts an .030 lite there is really any racing going on at the top end of the track?
Yes I do, absolutely.
Either your kidding or way better driver then me... I've gotten much better but most people can't see .030 at the stripe let alone .01x
Then enter the baggers we have around here and throw another wrinkle into it...
Go make some laps in S/G and let us know what you think them 
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: cbarracuda]
#173444
12/24/08 04:44 PM
12/24/08 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Heads Up with
six different ET classes means six different winners. Each winner gets points which will be cumulative at the end of the year. 400 protree.
This way you will bring more drivers and more people to the stands.
Full Body cars only.
In your 6 different classes how much do you win on
a normal car count weekend (dollar wise)?
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: 3404]
#173447
12/24/08 06:09 PM
12/24/08 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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My buddy runs his 68 Cuda in Super Street with the 10.90 index. His car will run 9.90's to 10.0's all out. Of course he uses all the electronics or he won't have a chance of winning. He runs the delay box because it is easier to be more consistent by launching as soon as you see yellow. The instant he see's yellow he releases the trans brake and of course the gas pedal was already on the floor. Then the delay box is set to actually release the transbrake when the delay gives him his best lite. I know I am only a T & T guy the last few years but I have ran a Pro tree and it is so easy to see how it is easier to time yourself to leave the instant you see yellow on the first lite rather then leaving on the last bulb on a full tree. I myself enjoy trying to cut a lite foot braking with my mild 11.50 street car but I am not a serious racer as I just like to go and have some fun grudge racing with friends. I really dont care for the way the Pro cars race with the cars laying down after the launch but thats just me. And to me if you run a heads up class but run on 1/2 second dails like 10.00 and 10.50 to 11.00 and 11.50 then it is still bracket racing as you can run out. It's just that the cars will launch together. Guess thats why I have fun at T & T's.  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/24/08 06:12 PM.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: cbarracuda]
#173449
12/24/08 06:54 PM
12/24/08 06:54 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
#173452
12/24/08 09:54 PM
12/24/08 09:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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Quote:
People who can't bracket race hate it. like some have said not much fun to watch unless you understand it. we here are getting a new track about 20min from where i live and i really hope they they have the 8.0 7.0 6.0 5.50 heads up classes. i can go 7 flat on a 150 shot. but i Bracket race hi 7s. love to do both.
Of course any type of race is fun for the driver. When you Index Race the two cars almost run the same numbers. When you bracket race, a 12 second car sometimes can beat a 9 second car. That will never happen in the street so it looks fake to the people on the stands.
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: cbarracuda]
#173453
12/24/08 10:41 PM
12/24/08 10:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 572
Shelbyville, TN USA
40ford
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 572
Shelbyville, TN USA
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We have just joined the Nostalgia Pro Comp Association(NPCA). It is based out of the Indy area. It's index racing, no electronics, no nitrous, .400 Pro tree---really geared to FEDs, roadsters and early gassers. Blown cars run methanol, unblown can run nitro.
The indexes are 6.50, 7.00, 7.50, 8.00 for center steer cars and 7.50, 8.00, 8.50 etc for door cars. Some of the slower door classes do have races with more than one index competiting against each other.
One of the things that impressed me about the group is the spectator count---really good!
The only reason I mention it is you may want to check their web site for specifics---just a thought!
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Re: Thinking About Heads Up Racing
[Re: dvw]
#173456
12/25/08 02:05 PM
12/25/08 02:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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we have one organization up here that i plan on doing some racing with next year www.npsaracing.comI'll be trying my hand at their 12.50 real street class. Heads up, pro tree, break out applies, no electronic throttle stops. All car must be fully Street Legal.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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) As far as Pro Tree vs Sportsman, Pro is 10x's harder with a sportsman tree you've got 3 light to get focused, on a Pro it's BAM and you're gone. I also like the idea of heads up rather than 1 go 1 sit and wait. Index racing is won or lost on the tree, cause you can bet on a 9.50 index almost everybody is going to be 9.52 or better.. IMO 
