Putting a volare clip in a Studebaker Where to begin?

First, decide if a Volare is what you really want. Are parts available? Will they be in 10 years when it's time to refresh?

Okay, now what is the wheelbase and track width of both the truck and the donor?
WB will affect the ackerman. Track width will affect wheel selection and looks.

Next, line up the truck on the floor and mark out front body mount, radiator location, wheel location, firewall location and steering column/box location. Also mark out the frame rail width from the axle centerline to the back of the cab.

Move the donor to the same spot and mark the same things.

Make plans for each variance.
Will the sheetmetal and radiator mount work?
Will the sheetmetal clear the frame?
Will the engine clear front and back?
Will the engine still fit in the new frame location?
will the steering column enter the cab at the same point and angle?
Will the 2 frames cross at a point where splicing and boxing are realistic?
What is the plan for the brake master?
What about radiator hoses, brake lines, exhaust and other routing?

A friend of mine bought one of those clips at a yard recently and wanted to hang it on the front of a '56 Plymouth that he is building. He asked me for advice and since I had never done one, I asked a rod builder that I respect about the process. The builder had done a few of those, but not recently and does not recommend them because they were not that good to begin with and now those parts are 40 years old
I remembered that I worked at a NAPA store in Kirkland when the Aspen / Volares were new and had conversations with the techs in the Kirkland, WA motor pool. They had ongoing problems keeping the police cars in alignment. It comes down to this, if you are going to build a high dollar street rod why would you want to build it with worn out parts???

Do yourself a favor and get an IFS kit from a reputable rod chassis shop and have it professionally installed.

Parts for that clip are all readily avalible,brakes,bushings,suspension,steering,all mother Mopar and engine bolts directly in. Just would like to see pictures and how to determine ride height. I'm very capable of welding it in just want to make sure it's in correctly.

Sounds like you have your mind set on the Volate clip. Can I ask why? Have you considered a Dakota front end? I have used them on both Dodge and Ford frames, they are readily available, easy to install and drive great.

F/M body isolated front end has a multitude of problems, but that being said you probably won't get killed from using one. The cop cars exposed some metallurgy and quality issues that eventually got dealt with.... so you'd probably want a unit out of a late 80s gran fury or diplomat rather than a late 70s F body. But any would work.

The issue you'll never be able to deal with is the wandering. The lower control arms are double-jointed so to speak, one rubber joint on the control arm, and then the rubber pivot joint on the torsion bar that doubles as the strut. this tends to make them follow the grooves even a little more than your standard mopar. I drove a 79 Lebaron and then 81 diplomat for years and you tend to get used to it. they're flawed designs, but it will get you around.

I think if you came up with a auxiliary strut arm or radius rod and gusseted the upper control arm towers it'd be fine. And if you do that, be sure to sell the patent to one of the aftermarket guys

Its been a while. If I remember correctly, the original mounting ears were designed to be level with earth (front to back, and side to side) at ride height (ride height is important). That should set the upper control arms with the rear lower then the front by about an inch, to an inch and a half,(there is quite a visible difference, if you have an opportunity to see one still installed in a car, look at the upper control arm angles) from level. You need to be sure you have the spindles centered in your wheel openings, and square to the truck. You also need to set the distance from the frame correct for your ride height and clearance when everything is done. Though there is some height adjustment, cranking the cross torsion bars up will be short lived, they tend to settle down pretty fast when they are under load, and there is very little it can be lowered. Its important that the K member be set and positioned correctly, then adapt the frame to meet the correctly positioned K member. Resist the temptation to adapt the K member mounting to making attaching to the frame easy. Compromising the correct location of the K member for ease of installation is most often what gave these clips a bad rep. The other issue is the torsion bar mounting pieces, (and other worn suspension) be sure yours are good.

If you are using the original steering box, be watchful of the angle of the column and the steering column clearance with the motor & firewall. The box sits back on the K member and it tends to have a pretty steep angle for the column on old trucks. Steering U joints can only handle about a 25 degree angle from straight, the the box is close to the firewall (at least was on the 3 I did).

The Volare suspension gives a great ride under a mid 50s truck (I had one under a 54 Dodge pickup). They tend to feel a bit mushy if you do spirited corners, and bigger sway bars are the only fix. The brakes are excellent, especially if combined with 10" or 11" rear brakes. Two of the 3 vehicles I installed these clips under were my personal vehicles. One went 70,000 after the install without issues, and the other went 40,000 miles without issues. Both vehicles were sold for different projects.

The later versions of the K member (from 5th Ave/Diplomats) had a reinforcing bar added under the upper control arm, bolted to the adjusting plate. The extra reinforcing plate helped the alignment issue the early cars had.

You have the K member in hand, and it looks pretty clean. Mount it correctly, and use it. That said, there are better and more easy to mount clips available these days, for your next project. Gene

Thanks for your info,the clip I have is very decent and your right about the Dakota clip but we are building this project with limited funds and got the clip to next to nothing. Truck is a 64 Studebaker with 69 440,727,8 3/4 but wanted to shed the straight axle. Anyone have pictures of thier build? Would
Appreciate some.
Thanks!

in most applications the subframe will have to notched into the stock frame to keep the ride height normal----that part is a tedious job---you also have to use a center sump oil pan on the 440.....

I put one in my 56 Plymouth ..and it's great..I now have disc brakes and power steering , and t/b suspension..car runs low 11's gone thru the traps at 119 mph straight and smooth.. and I have driven it from FL to NJ and back twice..RB power Mine is from a 1986 5th ave that I bought for $259 with bad motor..Got the whole car ,used the steering colume and anything else I could take....Easy install ..remove the coil spring ,weld a flat plate on the inside and notch the frame for the pads and go..

Be forewarned, cars and trucks have different frame heights compared to ride height. If you cut notches into your truck frame to mount the K member, the front sheet metal will be on the ground.
The car has the crossmember under the motor as the lowest frame point and the suspension attaches to the side of it. Most truck frames do not have a cross member under the motor, and the lowest frame point is under the cab. The suspension sits under the frame (sometimes by quite a distance). I don't want to sound like a broken record, but make sure your final ride height will be correct before you mount the K member. Gene

Thanks, I'm going to make sure all the weight is in the pickup and check & adjust for ride height before we do any cutting.My cousin did exactly what your talking about which is why i'm on here getting as much info as i can before i cut.
Thanks!!

Putting that front clip should be interesting. Could be fun as well. A good group of workers and pals should be able to tackle it and get it propper.

one of my friends put that k member under a 56 ford truck----he did not notch the frame and it sat so high he had to let the tension off on the torsion bars-----the truck handled like shik he said he learned his lesson on the shortcut of NOT notching the frame..

On my 54 Dodge, I cut the original frame off 11" in front of the front cab mounts and welded a 2" x 4" tube subframe into the existing truck frame, that area was boxed closed. Then I built mounts and bolted the K member to my new tube rails. I tied the front of the tube rails together with a tube end cap that sat below the side rails. This front tube was welded and gusseted to the side rails. The front tube served as a bumper bracket location, as a radiator surround support which was also front fender support.

The original frame rails on my Dodge were 6" high. I installed the tubing with the top of the tube 1" above the original rails, and my truck sat too low. The bottom of my front bumper was beat up bad, as were the leading edges of the running boards. A 12 oz pop can just fit under the front of the running boards and they scrapped many places.

If you intend to mount the Volare clip by the mounting brackets, the front 2 bolt holes are 4" on center wider then the rear 2 mounting bolts. My tube rails were composed of 2 sections of the tubing, welded side by side about midway to the front, the wider section towards the front. Unfortunately, all of my pictures of the truck construction went with the truck. There may still be a poor picture of the black painted frame, I will see if I can find it. Gene

Thanks Gene,we're looking at cutting the front rails n going with square tube just deciding on using the mount holes or welding solid.

Would anybody have some lamens info on an idea or way about cutting into the front frame horns beings due to a champ truck is not similar to an older f100 frame wise? (F100 being the only common threads available for complete info). Any info or ideas such as laying the existing frame up and back or fabbing up new frame horns to allow ease of a lower stance and mounting.

Last post was before updating the info you had put up. That seems to be very good info on a way to properly mount and fit. Are you saying that you have placed a "notch " or bars connecting the front and rear sections , passing around or above the installed suspension setup? As in using the member as a section of frame and incorporating bars or tubes to cross over the top of the now in place member ?

We have acquired early f100 fab instructions and are trying to decide which direction to start but I would really like to see any other builds to see if
Folks used the mounting holes or notched the frame and welded solid.

This seems to be a one off type of build. Pictures , if any available, that someone has done would most likely be key in figuring the stance. Also a good idea of location to not compromise the workings of the front end, making it an upgrade to the front as well as an option. I think if this has ever been done (To a studebaker) pictures alone would make a huge difference.

I think you need to take some measurements to start with. There's lots of F/M bodies still around, and plenty on this forum. Find out what the kframe to floor distance is when the car is down on the ground with a correct alignment and tire pressure. This will give good placement of the control arms and such if you plan to use that size tire (and simply adjust up/down depending on the tire height difference you plan to use). Now you know the torsion bar screws and control arms will be in the right ballpark when all is said and done. This give you a good place to mock up the Kframe without anything bolted to it.

Then you need to get the Stude mocked up where you want it - rake, ride height - and that gives you a way to determine whats going to fit into where, and what needs to be cut/sectioned. You can take measurements from that to the floor as well and begin to form an idea of what's going to interfere. I don't think this sort of thing can be planned ad-hoc over the internet according to other similar builds. Any time you see people doing this seriously, it's on a level concrete floor with mockups and tape measures

VincentVega is correct. This is not a one size fits all project. Each vehicle will have its own unique dimensions and issues that will need to be addressed.
When I built my 54, I began with a copy of Tex Smiths How to build a Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Hot Rod copyrighted in 1990. The book has been out of print for several years. The article is titled "A Mirada Subframe Into A 53 Dodge Truck" (A Mirada subframe is the same subframe as the Volare, 5th Ave, & Diplomat) and begins on page 62 of the book. From that article, I had to make modifications for it to work on my 54 truck. Following the given measurements, the steering column angle was too sharp, the firewall cut out was too small, and the suspension was too low. (even lowering the tubing into the frame 2", it was still lower then it should have been)
from the measurements in that book.

To summarize the article:
They set the truck on jack stands, [there was no info on how the stands were positioned or how the height was determined] removed the axle & springs, then cut the frame off 11" in front of the front cab mount (I cut mine off 13" in front of the cab mount, but not at this time, it set the front wheels forward in the wheel openings, but gave a much better steering column angle.)[2 things to check before whacking your frame, position of the wheels in the opening, and steering column angle]. After they whacked the frame, the did a "test fit" of the "loaded" K member. Then they used 2" x 4" Tubing to join the k member with the truck frame.
The over all length of the tubing is 26". Measuring forward 7" of the rear portion of the tube, they welded the tube to the top of the frame rail (the 7" mark is the end of the original rail, 7" of tube will be welded to the rail). [This tube position in relation to the original frame determines the ride height. I cut the top frame rail flange off, and dropped the tubing down 2" into the frame (I could have easily gone 3" deep or even completely inside the original frame). Doing this will raise the front of the truck. (Do not assume I have confused the positioning of the tubing and the frame rail and what the end result will be!)
Before everything was hacked off, and welded up, there are holes to drill & cut in the 26" long pieces. From the 7" line, coming forward 6 1/2" is a center line for a 2" diameter hole that must be cut through the inner side of the frame extension to permit access to the k member mounting bolt. On the bottom side of the tubing, a 5/8" hole is drilled at the center line of the previously mentioned 2" hole. This 5/8" hole is for the mounting bolt. There is also a clearance notch that has to be made to clear the K member on the bottom outside part of the frame extension. At this point, they welded the 26" long tubes to the frame and boxed everything in.[I did not, and would not suggest you do the finish weld this at this time. I did tack those extensions to my frame.] Then they bolted the subframe to the frame extensions using the original rubber mounting pads and bolts. [the k member will need front support while doing this.]

The second section of frame is made of 2" x 4" tubing with a clearance notch and holes drilled for access for the mounting bolts. The note said ("see accompanying sketches for exact dimensions") of which no sketches existed. The poor picture showed a notch about the size of the rubber mount cut into the bottom and boxed in, then the 2" holes & the 5/8" holes were drilled. You will have to use your K member for the hole dimensions.
The "new extensions" are installed with a 2" offset to the outside. [and welded and boxed] The K member now bolts up to the frame extension just as if Dodge designed it that way. Neat! [ Yep, after you finish up what they started.] There are many poor blurry, small, black and white pictures, and several more 1/2 truths concerning the rest of the swap that followed my summery.
Once I got the measurements I needed from my K member and transferred then to the tubing, I welded both extension pieces together and did the boxing of the extension pieces joint. Then I bolted both extensions to the K member and positioned it where it needed to be and tacked the whole subframe & extensions to the frame rail, installed the tires, and set it on the ground, set the motor & trans on top of the K member. bolted the front sheet metal to my cab and determined what needed to be changed for the correct ride height and steering column angle and what would be an acceptable tire to wheel opening position, then took everything off the frame, made the required changes and tacked the subframe extensions on and mocked up everything again, until I was happy with what I had. Then I blew everything apart and did the finish weld and boxing and added the front crossmember. Then I pulled the cab & painted everything up.

I found some pictures of the finished frame. Gene

Picture 2

picture 3

The truck

And we have a winner!
Thanks Gene and all that has chimed in, This is what I had in mind but couldn't visualise where the frame came in, Sweet this helps tremidously!
I'll shoot some pix of the progress when i dive in!!

On my truck, I used the factory rubber bushings between the k member and he tubing, there are sources out there that have aluminum spacers to replace the rubber bushings with. That would probably help with some of the mushy feeling on corners.
This is a picture of my other personal ride with a Volare clip under it.
The Dakota clip is a lot easier to do, they just slide right into many older frames at about the firewall until mid way under the cab. Gene

That is some very in depth info. I believe that is what is needed, info wise and help in general to aid in the type of project addressed in the main topic or first question posted. In my opinion making two new frame horns would be the way to go. Use the existing frame to lay you're new frame pieces over the top of them. This would put you in a very ballpark (extremely close) position. Set the two new rails offset to clear the adjustment rods coming up through the new member. Using the existing rails as a layover would eliminate lots of measuring. Assuming the truck will be now be a lower vehicle you will drop each side the height of the existing frame and additional to the "drop" of the now IFS. With everything in place and measured you can lay the new front extensions, tack strongly in place, once held you can eliminate the old front sections and slide in the front clip.

If the track width was compatible, my choice would be a late model Crown Vic.

4 bolts and it's installed. Apparently 34" frame width is the magic number.

Not what the OP is using but food for future thought.

Kevin

I find it interesting that several suggest the Crown Vic suspension because it mounts on 4 bolts. I would also like to point out the Volare cross member also bolts on with 4 bolts. As I understand, so does a Jag crossmember, and a Pacer did also, if I remember correctly. There are a lot of modern suspension systems that are bolted to their original cars that don't transfer well to something else.

The issue is not so much how the suspension system attached to the original vehicle, but how those bolt locations will transfer to the "new" vehicle's frame. It should be fairly obvious the bolt mounting holes for what ever modern suspension system used, will not be on a different chassis. I don't know how the Crown Vic bolt pattern is arranged, but I suspect you probably can't bolt the Crown Vic crossmember onto the same year F 150 because the mounting bolt locations for the Crown Vic are not present on the F150, unless you add the bolt mounting locations to the F150 chassis. That may not be difficult, or it may be very difficult, depending on the F150 chassis design, and how many things need to move.

The aftermarket Mustang II suspension systems are not popular because they are a superior system (because they are not), but because some guys took the time to develop a process and supply the needed parts to attach them to a wide variety of different vehicles. If no one has developed a Mustang II style system for your specific vehicle, you will still have to do some fabrication.

The bottom line is, regardless of how a suspension system was attached to its original vehicle, unless someone has made an attachment system for that suspension system to attach to your specific chassis, nothing other then the original equipment designed for your vehicle is going to bolt on. Some kind of fabrication is going to be required.

If you choose to modify your original vehicles suspension, there is no easy way to do it, but there are some ways that are more difficult then others. There is a reason it is called "modify and build" instead of "bolt on and exchange". Gene

My response was overly simplistic.

The Crown Vic cradle in this instance will likely need a lot less fabrication to install because the truck frame would not need to have an irregular shaped relief cut into it to receive the Volare clip. This assumes the track width is similar to the Crown Vic.

My understanding of the Crown Vic cradle is that the mounting flange if you will, resembles 2 angle irons IIRC, 34" apart.

The build thread I saw for one was on a 67 F100 and the frame width on those is the same as the Vic.

The builder said he used box tubing for a shim between the cradle and the frame to set his ride height and fabbed 4 tabs on the truck frame to accept the mounting bolts.

Sorry for the off topic.

Kevin

P-S-T.com sells upgrade parts, including bigger sway bar, for the Volare/Aspen front ends.

Here is something to consider.
Put a complete Dakota frame under the Stude. The dimensions are almost bang on. Way easier to mount a cab and box than to re-engineer, cut and weld a frame.
Buy a running Dakota, pull the body off, mount the cab and box and now you have disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, fuel injected Magnum engine and all the wiring etc is plug and play. Plus all Dakota aftermarket stuff will bolt on.
Dakota's come with 112" 124" or 131" wheelbases. On a 49-64 Stude shortbox, the wheelbase is 112" just like a shortbox Dakota. Not sure what your truck has, but altering he Dakota frame is super easy since they have a sliding section in the center, or you can shorten your truck box if needed.
You can even leave the Dakota cab floor and box floor and attach the Stude cab and box sides to them. Tha Dakota guages are in a neat little box that can easily be adapted to your dash too. Use the 87-96 Dakota for the simplest swap but the 97 and newer Dakotas will work too.