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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1725481
01/12/15 04:08 PM
01/12/15 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
The trick is to get Stage V to answer their phone.
Eric is busy so answering the phone is not a high priority, but he will respond to emails.
Head flow - I hesitate to make a comment here but... (there's always a but), Mid 400s is correct for a good CNC'd street, 16 bolt, head. It's the bolts next to the intake runner that limit opening the ports so a tennis ball will drop through. I'll just throw this in but the 10 bolt Millenium head can flow over 500 CFM without too much effort and FHO has got the high performance version of that head, with their special CNC program, to flow high 500s.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#1725482
01/12/15 04:14 PM
01/12/15 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
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Quote:
Quote:
The trick is to get Stage V to answer their phone.
Eric is busy so answering the phone is not a high priority, but he will respond to emails.
Head flow - I hesitate to make a comment here but... (there's always a but), Mid 400s is correct for a good CNC'd street, 16 bolt, head. It's the bolts next to the intake runner that limit opening the ports so a tennis ball will drop through. I'll just throw this in but the 10 bolt Millenium head can flow over 500 CFM without too much effort and FHO has got the high performance version of that head, with their special CNC program, to flow high 500s.
Question for you Rich: On the 10 bolt millennium heads, I have heard that there is some type of adapter avaialable to put a 16 bolt intake manifold on it, instead using a custom sheet metal intake. (I am thinking a bout a class that requires cast intakes) Is that so, and what would be lost by using the adapters and a cast tunnel ram?
Thanks 
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#1725484
01/12/15 05:06 PM
01/12/15 05:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
d7cook
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The trick is to get Stage V to answer their phone.
Eric is busy so answering the phone is not a high priority, but he will respond to emails.
Head flow - I hesitate to make a comment here but... (there's always a but), Mid 400s is correct for a good CNC'd street, 16 bolt, head. It's the bolts next to the intake runner that limit opening the ports so a tennis ball will drop through. I'll just throw this in but the 10 bolt Millenium head can flow over 500 CFM without too much effort and FHO has got the high performance version of that head, with their special CNC program, to flow high 500s.
Question for you Rich: On the 10 bolt millennium heads, I have heard that there is some type of adapter avaialable to put a 16 bolt intake manifold on it, instead using a custom sheet metal intake. (I am thinking a bout a class that requires cast intakes) Is that so, and what would be lost by using the adapters and a cast tunnel ram?
Thanks
Indy hemi tunnel rams come in 10 bolt as well as 16 bolt. I think I remember reading somewhere that there's no standard for where the holes go when manufacturers go to 10 bolt so Indy 10 bolts may not line up with Stage V 10 bolts.
1967 Coronet, 1989 Daytona tube chassis.
Former cars, 66 Charger, 67 R/T, 69 Coronet, 67 Dart GT.
-Banned for life from V8Buick.com-
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#1725486
01/12/15 05:23 PM
01/12/15 05:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Flange spacing on Millennium heads is different. A 10 bolt INDY will not just bolt on. Spacers are required.
Rich,
Not to highjack this thread but, if a guy were to go to an all out bracket effort, 2 carbs, 588-604 CI, big roller, and 15+ compression, what head would you pick, and what HP level could be realized?
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: camastomcat]
#1725488
01/12/15 05:33 PM
01/12/15 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
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Sonora CA
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Quote:
Rich,
Not to highjack this thread but, if a guy were to go to an all out bracket effort, 2 carbs, 588-604 CI, big roller, and 15+ compression, what head would you pick, and what HP level could be realized?
I'd use the high flow Millennium 10-bolt head, CNC ported by FHO, and a sheet metal intake. Hogan has done several for me and FHO so they know what to do. I'm doing a motor right now that sounds just like the same motor. There are a lot of other variables as you know, and you have to build it to support the RPMs required, but 1200 HP is very achievable.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#1725489
01/12/15 06:35 PM
01/12/15 06:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
Rich,
Not to highjack this thread but, if a guy were to go to an all out bracket effort, 2 carbs, 588-604 CI, big roller, and 15+ compression, what head would you pick, and what HP level could be realized?
I'd use the high flow Millennium 10-bolt head, CNC ported by FHO, and a sheet metal intake. Hogan has done several for me and FHO so they know what to do. I'm doing a motor right now that sounds just like the same motor. There are a lot of other variables as you know, and you have to build it to support the RPMs required, but 1200 HP is very achievable.
Last question and I'll go away, what would you expect a ported Millenium head package, less short block and accessories to cost? I will be very interested in how your project goes. Also, the RPM's you expect to run.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#1725490
01/12/15 06:48 PM
01/12/15 06:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Quote:
Yes. There are 1/4" and 3/8" spacer plates that allow a stock style manifold to bolt to the Millennium head (see pic). I used these on a 1800 HP blown alcohol HEMI that ran pretty well but ultimately was flow limited. Stage-V has these.
BTW: I feel I should make a comment about "shooting for high flow numbers". Most people want streetability and that requires velocity! High flow numbers have poor velocity at lower RPMs. When I was building HEMIs everybody wanted high flow numbers but it was the lower flow/higher velocity heads that people liked better. Unless you are building strictly a race motor that will never see less than 5000 RPM, stay with the smaller head. Heck - on a dyno pro-stock builders don't even start the pulls until 7000.
Is that a KB aluminum hemi block and if so, what do you do for the big gap where the step is in the valley area? My Indy valley cover doesn't work.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: camastomcat]
#1725492
01/12/15 07:50 PM
01/12/15 07:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Quote:
Is that a KB aluminum hemi block and if so, what do you do for the big gap where the step is in the valley area? My Indy valley cover doesn't work.
I had that gap with my B1's and the Indy valley plate too. I just filled it with silicone, and smoothed it out, let it dry overnight, and it worked fine. It pulled 12" of vacuum that way.
Not that small gap, With a Hemi KB block there is a huge step opening that won't allow the intake valley pan to cover completely to the head area.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Sammy]
#1725493
01/12/15 07:57 PM
01/12/15 07:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
Is that a KB aluminum hemi block and if so, what do you do for the big gap where the step is in the valley area? My Indy valley cover doesn't work.
I had that gap with my B1's and the Indy valley plate too. I just filled it with silicone, and smoothed it out, let it dry overnight, and it worked fine. It pulled 12" of vacuum that way.
Not that small gap, With a Hemi KB block there is a huge step opening that won't allow the intake valley pan to cover completely to the head area.
Is it more than a 1/8-1/4 inch? That's what I had.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: camastomcat]
#1725494
01/12/15 08:18 PM
01/12/15 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Sonora CA
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Quote:
Last question and I'll go away, what would you expect a ported Millenium head package, less short block and accessories to cost? I will be very interested in how your project goes. Also, the RPM's you expect to run.
Cost? Not to be sarcastic, but you'll spend as much for the head prep and machining work as you spend for the heads. Call Tim at FHO and see what he'll do. He has some new bronze alloy seats that are just beautiful.
For the bracket HEMI I'm building, I'm struggling with the compromises of reliability and low maintenance, vs power. To really use that flow we should be at least 8000 RPM but as I have said many times, "It's RPM that kills engines", so I'd like to keep the RPM down. I'm known for long lasting bracket engines, which is inconsistent with maximizing power. I'll probably drop the power down to 950 - 1000 HP because you don't really need the extra power for bracket racing.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Sammy]
#1725495
01/12/15 08:24 PM
01/12/15 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
Is that a KB aluminum hemi block and if so, what do you do for the big gap where the step is in the valley area? My Indy valley cover doesn't work.
That was a World block. Yes, the gap (from the bottom of the spacer to the deck) can get quite large and with the Millennium heads it's even worse. So I made my own spacers and machined for the fit. That brought the gap down to a manageable level.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#1725496
01/12/15 09:05 PM
01/12/15 09:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
Is that a KB aluminum hemi block and if so, what do you do for the big gap where the step is in the valley area? My Indy valley cover doesn't work.
That was a World block. Yes, the gap (from the bottom of the spacer to the deck) can get quite large and with the Millennium heads it's even worse. So I made my own spacers and machined for the fit. That brought the gap down to a manageable level.
And pictures of the spacers you made? I think mine might be leaking a little oil killing my vacuum.
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Re: Which Hemi Head?
[Re: OUTLAW565]
#1725499
01/28/15 01:49 PM
01/28/15 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
As for flow numbers i think the NRE X1 H2O Hemi heads exceed the Millenium heads don't they?
Yes they do and so do the BAE fat heads. But these are both billet alcohol heads not made for street use.
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The results are not the same 
Been there, done that 
Even have two different techs setting up and flowing the same heads on the same bench the same day can affect the results 
