eariler this week i had the chance to dyno test an Edelbrock STR-14 intake.
the motor is out of a customers race car, and is here for freshening, and hopefully an increase in power.
since i had never had the chance to run one of these intakes before, i wanted to test it before pulling the motor apart, and to baseline the motor overall as it came out of the car(to try and help determine if the car was running like it should for what the motor is making for power).

the basic build is:
446(unknown CR, but it has just over 190psi on a comp. test)
stage III ported E heads by Compu-Flow
Herbert roller cam, 246/253 @ .050, .585/.600 lift, 107lsa
HS 1.5 rockers
Indy reverse flow cooling
1 7/8" X 3" headers with 18" extensions

i tested 3 different intakes on this motor.
my Holley SD-4500 intake with a mildly reworked non-HP 9375 carb, a Weiand TR with 2 Carter 750 AFB's, the TR with the Ebrock 600's that the owner was running on the STR-14, and the STR-14 with the Ebrock 600's.

i made several warm up pulls for each combination, and made sure the numbers would repeat within 1-2hp, which they did for all the combinations.

here are the numbers:

RPM-----SD/1050---TR/750----TR/600---STR/600
---------TQ/HP-----TQ/HP-----TQ/HP-----TQ/HP
3700----522/368---555/391---558/393---528/372
3800----536/389---566/410---567/410---536/388
3900----548/407---566/420---572/425---548/407
4000----552/421---569/433---572/436---546/416
4100----554/432---572/446---570/445---545/426
4200----555/444---569/455---565/452---547/438
4300----557/456---565/463---564/462---547/448
4400----559/468---564/472---570/477---548/459
4500----561/481---569/487---566/485---550/471
4600----560/491---571/500---568/498---543/476
4700----556/498---569/509---568/509---540/483
4800----549/502---567/518---567/518---537/491
4900----548/512---564/526---562/525---530/494
5000----544/518---558/531---557/530---531/505
5100----542/526---554/538---546/530---525/510
5200----535/530---542/537---544/539---518/513
5300----534/538---535/540---542/547---513/517
5400----526/541---527/542---530/545---504/518
5500----519/544---525/550---526/551---496/519
5600----517/552---513/547---511/544---490/523
5700----513/556---504/547---505/548---479/520
5800----502/554---491/542---489/540---468/517
5900----494/555---479/538---483/542---466/523
6000----485/554---466/532---471/538---459/525
6100----474/551---463/538---462/536---452/525
6200----464/548---454/536---456/538---446/527
6300----456/547---448/538---449/538---429/515
6400----443/540---442/538---436/532---421/513
6500----437/541---428/530---432/534---405/501



as mentioned in another thread, this particular STR-14 has a home made top piece, which is seperated from the base by a 3/4" piece of some sort of plastic.
the carbs are mounted sideways, like an OE MW motor, with the primary barrels towards the outside of the intake.

i'll take a couple of pics of it next time i'm down at the shop.

the motor came out of a 63 B body that weighs 36-3700lbs, was running a 10" Trans-King converter which flashed about 4000, and 4.56 gears, and he was using 1 7/8 headers but was not running the reverse flow cooling system in that car.

the car was a low-11 sec combo(typically teens-20's), and never broke into the 10's.

I am always surprised by the Holley as well! Did the TR have the runners port matched? I didn't think the Holley would hang in with the TR like that.

Sheldon

Here are some comparisons for those who are interested:


-----------Peak HP-------Peak TQ-----Avg. HP---Avg. TQ
-----SD--556 @ 5700---561 @ 4500-----502-------522

-TR 600--550 @ 5500---571 @ 4600-----505-------527

-TR 750--551 @ 5500---570 @ 4400-----505-------527

STR 600--527 @ 6200---550 @ 4500-----484-------505


Very interesting. I wonder why the STR makes it's peak HP so much higher that the other 3? Is it due to the larger plenum volume or...???

Well, the STR may be down 18-21 HP and 17-22 lb.ft. of TQ compared to the others, but it has a more unique look than the SD/4500 and it will fit under the hood (and a Max Wedge hood scoop) on my 64 unlike the tunnel-ram. Hey, I have to justify it to myself somehow...

A big thanks to Fast for the numbers. For those of us using "old tech" pieces like the STR, its nice to know how it compares to more modern set-ups. Fast, if/when you ever test the OE STR and the MW X-ram, I would be very interested in the results.

I was very surprised to see how little the numbers on the TR changed with the different carbs. I knew that there would not be a big difference, but I thought it would be a little more apparent. I wonder what kind of difference there would be between the Weiand and an M-1 TR. I just happen to know where one is sitting on a shelf if you would like to compare...

this TR has had the two halves matched to each other, and has been gasket matched as well.
the Holley SD has been made into a 4500 intake by welding a plate to the top of the plenum, and then blending that into the original casting, however it has not had any work done to the runners themselves.

the STR-14 had the mods recommended in the old DC engine book done to it, which the owner says were worth almost a tenth in the car.

if you look in the tech archives at the original Ebrock head tests, you'll see the TR was better than the Holley 4500 on that motor by about 20-25hp(same two intakes).
so, it looks like as the power level goes up, the TR starts to show even more promise.
however, on that test i was using two modified Speed Demon 650's.
ive since sold those carbs, but am going to get together a pair of ProForm bodied carbs for future testing.
at some point i'd like to test the Weiand TR against the MP TR(which i have as well....but it needs a little tweeking before being put into service).

on a 528 with BS heads, a "cleaned up" MP TR with 2 X 750 Holleys kicked the crap out of a single plane M1 with an 1150 carb on a 4150/4500 adapter by about 60-70hp IIRC(i'll have to check my notes).....so i think it might be a pretty good piece.

EDIT-just checked my notes.....the MP TR was 50hp better on that 528. 690hp vs 740hp, and the peak TQ went from 690 to 715.

I guessed around 580hp with the TR-750s I wasn't to far off. but I figured the dom would be a little more?

Quote:

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at some point i'd like to test the Weiand TR against the MP TR(which i have as well....but it needs a little tweeking before being put into service).

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Looks like the shorter/larger runners of the MP TR would give an advantage over the Weiand's longer/smaller runners. I don't know, just my

Quote:

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on a 528 with BS heads, a "cleaned up" MP TR with 2 X 750 Holleys kicked the crap out of a single plane M1 with an 1150 carb on a 4150/4500 adapter by about 60-70hp IIRC(i'll have to check my notes).....so i think it might be a pretty good piece.

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That is really cool. In your opinion, would I see much of a difference with 2 x 750 Holleys versus 2 x 750 Edelbrocks on that MP TR? The E-carbs are nearly box stock with the chokes removed and always work great. No hint of any bogging/stumbling at all from them. I just always assumed that the engine wouldn't care what brand the carbs were. CFM is CFM, right? I realize that the Holleys are much more adjustable, but as long as there are performance issues....???

ive never done the back to back test(on either the dyno or in the car) so i cant say for sure, but i know of at least one board member who has swapped from Ebrock 750's to some high dollar Holley 750's and saw no difference in ET.

i just like the Holleys better, so thats what i'll end up using.
i got everything all set up for the Holley/Proform carbs on the Weiand today, just need one more Proform body to arrive(should be here Tuesday) and it will be a ready to install & test intake/carb combo.

i'd really like to try it on an E headed stroker combo with a pretty good sized cam and see how it works on the bigger motor.....and at the same time compare it with the MP TR.

here's a pic of the STR-14 with the home made top(see attach).
you'll see the carbs are also mounted on top of 2" spacers.
these are open spacers.

Ramcharger, do you have any pics of how you did the linkage on your STR-14??

here is looking from the back of the motor.
the cable pulls sideways on the bottom of the lever, which is hooked to a shaft that runs under the plate between the two carbs and attaches to the other carb up front.

here's the Holley intake

Fast thanks as allways good info to kick around

Quote:

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Ramcharger, do you have any pics of how you did the linkage on your STR-14??

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I think I might but they are on my computer at work. I'll look and see Tuesday and let you know.

Love that intake !

Any pictures of my motor ?

Any guess what that motor would have lost by going to an SD with a 4150 950hp?

Well, now that the post was restarted, here is a graph of the data.

So, on your Dyno it takes about 520 HP to run low 11's in in a 3600-3700 lbs car with 4000 stall verter and 4.56 gears.

It's good to see some numbers to give us an idea of performance versus power on your dyno. Especially considering all the good data/info you feed us all the time.

Since the STR-14 did not perform as well, maybe you should sell it to me (Cheap of course, it doesn't work so good)

My brother and myself switched from wieand TR's to M1 TR's and seen no noticable difference other then increased hood clearance, no performance change noticable, mine was on a fairly mild 440 in a 63 dodge running 11.20's-11.30's, his was on a 383 duster running 10.70's-10.80's

on a side note, I did switch from 2 500 cfm carter comp series too 2 750 cfm carter comp series on the same 63 dodge and picked up a solid tenth, maybe 1.5 mph, most of the gain came in the 60'! then I switched too 2 750 cfm ebrocks and they ran the same as the 750 carters...as noted earlier a switch to 2 750 race prepped dp holleys made no noticable et gain over the carters on an indy headed 440

a run down on the car, 63 dodge, 3540lbs w/driver
4.56 dana on leaf springs, 13x31" rear tire, 10" street/strip type convertor, .060 440 , stock crank&rods, KB pistons, home ported heads w/ 2.14/1.81 valves, 10.5:1 comp ratio, cam was an old lunati .540/.563 lift and 261/271 duration @ .050, TR 2 750's, car ran 11.20's - 11.30's @ 119 with 1.57-1.58 60' , fun car, wish I had it back

Great info, as always, Dwayne. I bolted an STR-14 manifold onto a head on my home made flow bench one time and it really hurt the flow. I'm not surprised that it's down on power.
Ken B.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to make the str better?

well, i have taken the 446 apart that i did the STR-14 tests on, so heres a little info on what was inside.

OE crank with 6 cracks in it, LY rods resized with ARP bolts, TRW L2295's with the domes cut off, and then deeper valve notches put in, and the block milled a bunch so these are at "0" deck.
the pistons had been hitting the heads, and after measuring the piston to wall clearance i could see why...... .012 clearance.
pistons are to size, bores are quite big, but arent really worn much at all.
this motor was pretty much built this way.
the caps are walking around pretty bad too with the stock main bolts.
the off-the-shelf Crane pushrods are way too long, which isnt surprising seeing as how the block has been decked around .050, and the heads have been milled some too.
i havent cc'd those yet, but i did pull them all apart to check them over.
all in all, they are fine. valve job looks good, springs were still fine.

i put one on the bench to see how it was. its got some really nice low lift numbers on the intake side, but i think he's leaving a little on the table up top to get them.

anyway, here is what it flowed on my bench, on a 4.375 bore:

lift----I/E
.100--69.4/58.3
.200-152.6/110.4
.300-226.5/159.3
.400-262.5/194.8
.500-280.1/218.4
.600-292.2/228.8
.700-301.1/238.3

so.....the rotating assembly is getting upgraded to a 440 Source 3.75 crank and rods, and i have some Diamond pistons coming at .040 over that are a lightweight replacement for the L2295. this way they will be the correct C/H for this block without needing to resort to a custom piece.
i will leave the domes on them since we're looking for a boost in compression.
the block will be getting a tall fill(race car only), and a set of ARP main studs will be used to help with the cap walk.
the heads will be opened up to MW size, and an OE MW intake will be used instead of the STR-14, and finally the cam will be changed from the Herbert 246/253 to something with around 25-30deg more duration @ .050 in the .650 lift range.
then, the car will more than likely get bigger headers and an 8" converter with around 5500 stall.

Sounds like that engine's going to be cranking out a LOT more power than before. There will be an "after" dyno test, right?

I'll be interested in knowing how the 440source parts check out for you, too.

I also would like to see an "after" dyno test. Back to back with the MW intake, and then a big single 4 bbl. would be cool also. Why not a 4.15 crank while your at it?