|
512 stroker build, need suggestions
#1717814
12/30/14 01:41 PM
12/30/14 01:41 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
This is my 1st post here after lurking for awhile, lots of good stuff. I have a 440 block that a local machine shop is building into a 512 stroker. For kits, looking at 440 source, eagle and muscle motors or piecing together my own. My machine shop has built a few 440 source and doesn't seem thrilled about them, would like to use Eagle but I've heard mixed reviews. Street only car, maybe a few passes for kicks but not a definite, needs to run on 91 octane as 93 is not always available in my area. Going with aluminum heads, lunati hydraulic roller and want a compression ratio close to 10.5:1.
Muscle motors seems to use Eagle or K1 cranks, Icon forged pistons, and not sure on rods.
What kit would you guys buy and why? Any proven engine combos on here I can read about?
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1717818
12/30/14 02:36 PM
12/30/14 02:36 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
Quote:
If you're not going to use it at the track, why not just use a stock crank? you can make plenty of power and have fun w/ a Stock Stroke 440, you can use easy to find and often cheaper parts and you can assemble it yourself and save $$$. 
All I have is the block, I'd like to take advantage of today's technology and would be buying new regardlesss. Prices are so close between stock and stroker nowadays that it just makes sense. I won't race it, but I want it to be a monster 
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: dave73chally]
#1717819
12/30/14 03:00 PM
12/30/14 03:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
My concern is the majority of stroker kits use dished pistons in either -17cc or -26.7 cc. Yet, Eagle uses a flat top at -8cc. Using Eagle's compression ratio calculator, I'm getting a CR of 11:1 with a 84cc head, zero deck and .045 quench, higher than I want.
Then skip the eagle kit.
What is the bore of the block ? to get 512 I'm having to go out to a 4.380 bore. unless the block needs it I would only bore it out as far as it needs to go and no further.
Crunching numbers the 17cc dish piston is your best choice , it will give you about 10.3 ...
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: JohnRR]
#1717821
12/30/14 04:05 PM
12/30/14 04:05 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
Then skip the eagle kit.
What is the bore of the block ? to get 512 I'm having to go out to a 4.380 bore. unless the block needs it I would only bore it out as far as it needs to go and no further.
Crunching numbers the 17cc dish piston is your best choice , it will give you about 10.3 ...
Bore is 4.375, was previously .040 and cleaned up nice at .050. When I calculate the CR with 17cc dish I'm getting 10.8 w/ 80cc heads. Are you using 84cc? I'm using this site:
https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?main_page=calculators&type=comp
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#1717822
12/30/14 04:07 PM
12/30/14 04:07 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
Quote:
You might want to take a look at SCAT as well they have real nice stuff right out of the box at the same price point. IC825 Icon pistons with 7.100 rod and 4.250 crank.
http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/
Thanks, I will. Here is what Muscle Motors sent me, it's what included in their 512 kit(found in their Killer Krate):
4.250 Stroke/4340 Steel/ Micropolished/2.200 Journal Crank (RPM or K1)
7.100 Length/4340 Steel/H-Beam/2.200 Journal/.990 Bushed Pin End/ARP 2000 Fastener/Size & Pinfit(RPM)
4.350,4.360 or 4.375 Bore/ Forged/ Dish or Flatop Piston/.990 Pin/1/16,1/16,3/16 Ring Stack(Icon)
Speed Pro Plasma Moly File to Fit Ring Set 1/16,1/16,3,16 Ring Stack
M77 Chamfered Rod Bearings
Federal Mogul Chamfered Main Bearings
Competiton Actual Component Balancing.(Not book weight balancing)
I like this the best so far, their pistons are -26.7cc giving me a CR of 10:1 and Dynamic CR of 8.4:1. That should be good for 91 octane right? I think I read a Dynamic CR of 8.3 would run 89 octane so .1 should run 91 no problem?
Last edited by dave73chally; 12/30/14 04:09 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: dave73chally]
#1717824
12/30/14 04:39 PM
12/30/14 04:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Then skip the eagle kit.
What is the bore of the block ? to get 512 I'm having to go out to a 4.380 bore. unless the block needs it I would only bore it out as far as it needs to go and no further.
Crunching numbers the 17cc dish piston is your best choice , it will give you about 10.3 ...
Bore is 4.375, was previously .040 and cleaned up nice at .050. When I calculate the CR with 17cc dish I'm getting 10.8 w/ 80cc heads. Are you using 84cc? I'm using this site:
https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?main_page=calculators&type=comp
I used 84cc because that was what you said . I used that site just now and come up with 10.39 with an 84cc head and 17 cc piston dish.
I'm using 4.410 and .041 for the gasket, piston at .001 in the hole.
Have you had the block sonic checked ? What year is it ?
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: Stanton]
#1717828
12/30/14 05:49 PM
12/30/14 05:49 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
Quote:
I'm very pleased with my 440Source kit. On the other hand, a guy I know ordered the Muscle Motors smallblock kit and the crank journals are square. Two years later and they've still failed to provide ANY sort of solution. All he was asking for was a set of o/s bearings so the machine shop could correct the problem.
I've no doubt that for every bad situation there are 20 good ones but failure to resolve a simple issue with an inexpensive solution is enough to make me avoid them.
Oy, don't like the sound of that. I have heard nothing but good things about 440 source lately, only issues I've read seemed to be from awhile ago and those have been ironed out. I'm leaning toward their 440>512 (.055 over) kit that uses 4.375 bore, 4.250 stroke, -26.7cc dish pistons, also going to use their 80cc aluminum heads. Gives me the following compression ratio:
Everything I entered look correct?
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: ccdave]
#1717830
12/30/14 06:22 PM
12/30/14 06:22 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
Yea, 84cc heads make it difficult with the majority of the kits. I'm between either:
80cc stealth heads with -27 dish pistons for a CR of 10:1 and dynamic of 8.4:1
or
84cc eddy heads with -17 dish pistons for a CR of 10.4:1 and dynamic of 8.8:1
10.4:1 is almost perfect but trying to figure out what octane fuel I would need to run.
Found this online, does this look valid? Would the ratio's change with my aluminum heads?
at 9:1 you can run 87 octane,
at 9.5:1 you can still run 87 octane
at 10:1 you need to go to 91 octane
at 10.5:1 you need 91 octane
at 11:1 you need to go to 92/93 octane
Last edited by dave73chally; 12/30/14 06:23 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: dave73chally]
#1717832
12/30/14 07:21 PM
12/30/14 07:21 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Yea, 84cc heads make it difficult with the majority of the kits. I'm between either:
80cc stealth heads with -27 dish pistons for a CR of 10:1 and dynamic of 8.4:1
or
84cc eddy heads with -17 dish pistons for a CR of 10.4:1 and dynamic of 8.8:1
10.4:1 is almost perfect but trying to figure out what octane fuel I would need to run.
Found this online, does this look valid? Would the ratio's change with my aluminum heads?
at 9:1 you can run 87 octane,
at 9.5:1 you can still run 87 octane
at 10:1 you need to go to 91 octane
at 10.5:1 you need 91 octane
at 11:1 you need to go to 92/93 octane
You still need to look at the dynamic to say for sure
but on my 416 with 9.2 dynamic and iron heads I can
and do run on 87 on the street..I get ZERO knock..
if I want to run on the track I will add some 93...
you can add more with alum heads
|
|
|
Re: 512 stroker build, need suggestions
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1717833
12/30/14 07:33 PM
12/30/14 07:33 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
dave73chally
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
North Jersey
|
You still need to look at the dynamic to say for sure
but on my 416 with 9.2 dynamic and iron heads I can
and do run on 87 on the street..I get ZERO knock..
if I want to run on the track I will add some 93...
you can add more with alum heads
Just spoke with my engine builder, he recommends stay near or under 8.5 dynamic for 91 octane. That means I'd be going with 80cc stealth heads, 440 source 512 stroker with -27cc pistons. Gives me a compression of 10:1 and dynamic of 8.4:1. What do you guys think?
|
|
|
|
|
