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2015 SCCA CAM rules #1712997
12/20/14 01:10 AM
12/20/14 01:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
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IndyDave Offline OP
member
IndyDave  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Speedway In.
APPENDIX B - CLASSIC AMERICAN MUSCLE (CAM)

Rationale: The purpose of CAM is to attract automobile enthusiasts who are currently interested and/or participating in Goodguys®, Ultimate Street Car Association®, or other similar events for “classic” vehicles manufactured in North America by “The Big Three” based in the US (GM, Ford, and Chrysler). These avid enthusiasts would largely be a new and different group to join us as SCCA® members and participants. Regions are encouraged to offer this program using a single CAM class or the National Solo® supplemental classes to encourage Classic American Muscle car enthusiasts to join the fun at your SCCA Solo® events!

Eligible Vehicles

•Vehicle must be either a domestic automobile of front-engine/RWD configuration or a “pick-up” truck.

•Vehicle must be licensed and insured and considered fully “street legal” (lights, wipers, etc.). Windshield and glass must be OE or equivalent except as subsequently allowed. Interior and exterior must have a “finished” look.

•Vehicle must pass the mandatory safety inspection (tech) and be in compliance with Section 3, Vehicles, of the 2015 SCCA® National Solo® Rules.

•Excluded: Chevrolet Corvette (1984-2015), Dodge/SRT Viper (all)

Body Allowances

•Body panels may be modified or replaced in the original standard locations.

•Rear seating may be removed or modified .If removed, seat bottom area
must be covered; seat back area must be covered with a panel.

•Interior panels (door panels, kick panels, etc.) may be replaced and must cover any opening(s) the original panel(s) concealed. A single panel may only be replaced by another single panel.

•Dash may be modifed or replaced, but must be complete and cover the original area.

•Headliner may be replaced or removed.

•Exposed metal interior surfaces must be covered, painted, and/or coated. (No “race car” interiors, please.)

•Fuel tank/cell may be modified or replaced and must be separated from the driver/passengers as originally manufactured or by a metal panel/ bulkhead. Fuel must not vent into the driver/passenger compartment directly or indirectly.

•Front splitter, air dam, and/or spoiler may be added below the bumper, but must not extend past the perimeter of the body.

•Rear spoiler may be added, but may extend no more than 8” from the original body nor past the perimeter of the body. No rear wings may be added except OE or equivalent.

Wheel and Tire Allowances

•Any metallic wheels are allowed. Non-metallic wheels are also allowed but must be certified / approved from an appropriate, recognized standards organization (e.g., FIA, SFI, SAE, TUV, etc.).

•Any DOT-approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or higher are permitted.

Body Electrical System Allowances

•Components and wiring are unrestricted.

Brake System Allowances

•Components, lines, and hoses are unrestricted.

Suspension and Steering Allowances

•Components and method of attachment are unrestricted.

Engine and Drive Train Allowances

•Components (internal and external) are unrestricted.

Supplemental Classes, as used at SCCA® National Solo® events:

CAM-T (Traditional) (body styles originating from 1954-72)

•Examples: Camaro (-1981), Mustang (-1973), Barracuda (-1974)

•Seating originally for 4 or more adults

•Wheelbase, minimum (inches) .................................................. ................................108

•Weight, minimum (lbs.) .................................................. ............................................3000

•Interior floor covering(s) may be replaced, but not removed.

CAM-C (Contemporary) (body styles originating from 1978-on)

•Included: Pontiac GTO (2004-06), Pontiac G8 (2008-09), Chevrolet SS (2014-15)

•Seating originally for 4 or more adults

•Wheelbase, minimum (inches) .................................................. ................................100

•Weight, minimum (lbs.) .................................................. ............................................3000

•Interior floor covering(s) may be replaced, but not removed.

CAM-S (Sports) (minimum wheelbase - 90”)

•Seating originally for 2 or more adults

•Wheelbase, minimum (inches) .................................................. ...................................90

•Weight, minimum (lbs.) .................................................. ............................................2600

•Weight, minimum (lbs.) w/ Lexan® windshield .............................................2750

Note: In 2016, OE or equivalent windshields will be required in keeping with CAM philosophy of “no race cars.”

•Side windows may be replaced with Lexan® or equivalent and operating mechanism may be removed or changed.

•Interior floor covering may be removed


Dave Dusterberg
1979 Aspen R/T (soon to be #19 CAM/T)
2002 Ram 1500 SLT
2005 Magnum R/T
2005 Mustang GT SCCA CAM/C #19
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: IndyDave] #1712998
12/20/14 02:05 AM
12/20/14 02:05 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
N
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
ntstlgl1970  Offline
mopar
N

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Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
nice!

I'll be on the lookout for this...

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: IndyDave] #1712999
12/20/14 06:56 PM
12/20/14 06:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 801
central CT
cudazappa Offline
super stock
cudazappa  Offline
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central CT
Only thing that stinks for the Mopar folks is the 60-66 Valiant/Barracuda is on a 106" wheelbase. Means those cars are in CAM-S and not CAM-T.

Not that many show up, but when you look at rules and start thinking of cars to build up...


1971 Challenger
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: cudazappa] #1713000
12/20/14 08:03 PM
12/20/14 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
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Nebraska
Im 111, so I must be at a disadvantage.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: 72Swinger] #1713001
12/20/14 08:33 PM
12/20/14 08:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318 Offline
pro stock
goldduster318  Offline
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Nice. I was hoping they'd do this.


'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: IndyDave] #1713002
12/21/14 02:47 AM
12/21/14 02:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels Offline
enthusiast
Tomswheels  Offline
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Escondido CA USA
Dave, I think you guys did a good job on these!

8368907-image.jpg (170 downloads)
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: Tomswheels] #1713003
12/21/14 11:47 AM
12/21/14 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

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Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
It seems like there is an obsession with Lexan windshields, why? If its just weight, easy to tack on a weight penalty for that choice. Lexan can solve a lot of issues easily for the owner, what downside is there for the competition?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: jcc] #1713004
12/21/14 01:51 PM
12/21/14 01:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
I Live Here
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Sounds like it's pretty open at first to get participation going, but I'd expect some tightening up after a few years.
Any brake, suspension, drivetrain, 3K weight?
No mention of sheetmetal or chassis mods except it must be road legal?

If I had the money, I'd grab a stack of AMD sheetmetal, a stock windshield and one of these!

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: RodStRace] #1713005
12/21/14 02:35 PM
12/21/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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Quote:


If I had the money, I'd grab a stack of AMD sheetmetal, a stock windshield and one of these!




I think IndyDave is doing just that with an old ARCA chassis and a Volare.

Over on protouring.com,there is already a Vette owner with his undies in a wad over the exclusion of C4 and newer Vettes. I'm sure there will be plenty of other complainers along the way and as a result, clarification and redefining of the rules over the years until its not fun any more.

I just hope to get my heap on the road so I can go play this year, even if I get schooled in it.

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: TC@HP2] #1713006
12/21/14 03:26 PM
12/21/14 03:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
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IndyDave Offline OP
member
IndyDave  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
On the subject of lexan, the cars in CAM are supposed to be street legal cars and lexan isn't in the spirit of that.

On the wheelbase in T: I'm personally a little disappointed with it. I suggested a minimum WB of 103" so cars like early A Bodies and the Ford Maverick / Comet wouldn't have to compete in CAM/S. But some times things like this are the product of the sausage making that is creating a set of rules that have to satisfy multiple entities. The upside is that 1) Regions are being encouraged to offer CAM as a single class, the sub-classes being offered at National Tour events and any other SCCA "special events" that may develop for CAM. 2) the chances of anyone being severely mis-matched at a Regional Solo are slim. The chances of a Danny Popp or a Josh Leisenger showing up at a Regional event are extremely slim.

And yes, I'm building a '79 Aspen that I'm putting a Laughlin BGN chassis under. This is perfectly fine for CAM, Goodguy's, or USCA and I'm not the first to do it. Mine is going to have a heavy short track "Kit Car" influence in street fighter style build.


Dave Dusterberg
1979 Aspen R/T (soon to be #19 CAM/T)
2002 Ram 1500 SLT
2005 Magnum R/T
2005 Mustang GT SCCA CAM/C #19
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: IndyDave] #1713007
12/21/14 03:31 PM
12/21/14 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,661
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
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So, are they going to allow REAL cars? You know, the ones we still drive on the street. REAL cars that are still like what the factory produced? So we don't have to compete against these built race cars with license plates?


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: amxautox] #1713008
12/21/14 04:25 PM
12/21/14 04:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
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It looks like they are trying to have a class that is all-inclusive, including stock production cars.
The problem is older muscle car are often modified to many different levels. Torque thrusts with wider tires, a bit lower, maybe a set of shocks, and a stronger engine for a start (typical cruise night car), going all the way to a pro-built pro touring car. If you want to run your Aussie Charger, it's NOT American. But they would probably let it run anyway. I haven't kept track of the AMC in your signature, but it's probably not as it rolled out of the factory.

My thought was an extreme example of what is allowed with the minimal rules as stated. It would also be pennies on the dollar compared to buying an older restored car (20K) and setting it up with a decent suspension (5K) light forged wheels and the best tires allowed (another 5K), along with good brakes and an accusump to keep the engine alive (another 1-2K).

Examples of chassis that could be modified for use.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modified-Turn-Ke...mtr#ht_44wt_900

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171596919278?for...60#ht_166wt_847

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NASCAR-RACE-CAR-...276#ht_44wt_900

This guy already mounted a vintage body!
3500 is not going to get you much in a 55 chevy OR a muscle Mopar!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-Chevy-project...l_#ht_120wt_900


If you look at ebay "SCCA" listings, you will see either real cheap or real expensive. If you just want to run SCCA, you can buy a car done cheap. If you want to get in quick, you can get something like this (I'm sure some Chevy guy who is looking these rules over is also looking at this car)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251762755065?for...m=#ht_121wt_900

If you want to build a real competitive race car from a 40-year old production car, it is a fool's way to go. Old street tech modified into modern racing is going to cost a huge amount of money and the result is going to be less street worthy and not as good a race car as a modern street car with the same money or a dedicated race car (which they are trying to avoid). This is simply trying to be an all-inclusive class for people with older muscle cars that want to try them out on a race course.

BTW, I know racing beats stuff to death, through running, fixes and modifications. It's not as quick as a demo derby, but it happens. I love seeing old muscle cars out racing, but if that means even more are cut up, rode hard, and dumped out back when the energy or money run out, I'd rather see something like the 55 above or Indy Dave's Aspen Kit Car out there.

Last edited by RodStRace; 12/21/14 04:38 PM.
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: RodStRace] #1713009
12/21/14 04:30 PM
12/21/14 04:30 PM
Joined: May 2003
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amxautox Offline
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amxautox  Offline
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The AMX is pretty dam close. Only changes are 300 lb front springs instead of 115. A heavier front sway bar,and a rear sway bar that they never came with. Rear spring are stock rating, but new back in '99. And no sub frame connecters, weren't allowed. Stock type shocks, weren't any special shocks available back then in '99. Corvett seats, that's it, no built race car with plates, those were in CP, not ESP.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: amxautox] #1713010
12/21/14 04:34 PM
12/21/14 04:34 PM
Joined: May 2003
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On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
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amxautox  Offline
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A built race car with old sheet metal hung on it should have their own class and kept away from the real street cars. Maybe CP class.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: RodStRace] #1713011
12/21/14 04:35 PM
12/21/14 04:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
Overall, I do like the spirit of the class, and that is proven to a large degree by the the two main cars excluded. Hope it succeeds and many have fun playing with their cars. I think the requirement for a fully appointed interior? starts to squeeze out the tube chassis sleepers.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: jcc] #1713012
12/21/14 05:23 PM
12/21/14 05:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
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I don't have the money or the energy to do this, I was just thinking that IF someone did have the time and money to do so, and was trying to be competitive, the rules seemed to be open enough to allow this. I agree that a 'silhouette' muscle car is not in the spirit of the class.

Starting with a nice 72 Challenger and doing a stroker small block with a race pan, a sorted trans, driveshaft and diff, the full Hotchkiss upgrade with brakes and wheels/tires, and a decent cage and safety equipment, you are in some serious money. It would also likely be a backrunner compared to something like the Camaro I posted, with a similar driver.

I enjoy the Grass Roots Motorsports challenge cars. Build something that is interesting using your intelligence and grit instead of going to a pro shop and getting the best tool for the track.

Let's face it, most street muscle cars would be limited by the driver, not the car. However, if the SCCA is serious about developing this class, they will have to do the usual limiting. Without it, it will become a single style car (whatever becomes the best tool) that is outrageous in cost to remain competitive. It's just the evolution of racing we have all seen. Perhaps if the class stays only local, no regional or national coverage, it could become like (ugh) Golf, where anyone can go out and have fun competing against the course and their own best, not run against Tiger Woods. That should be what true amateur solo racing should be, having fun and working to better your car and your skills.

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: RodStRace] #1713013
12/21/14 05:44 PM
12/21/14 05:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
I plan to attend at least the finals in Lincoln NE with my Dart. I have to find a good alternative to my 335 Toyo RA1's in the rear to be legal. If im up against a car that is at the limit of the rules say 3000 lbs,108" wheelbase, running 315's at all corners and 800hp im sure I would get my rear handed to me. But oh well, its about me and my car and what it and I can lay down that matters.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: RodStRace] #1713014
12/21/14 05:45 PM
12/21/14 05:45 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
super stock
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Quote:

I don't have the money or the energy to do this, I was just thinking that IF someone did have the time and money to do so, and was trying to be competitive, the rules seemed to be open enough to allow this. I agree that a 'silhouette' muscle car is not in the spirit of the class.

Starting with a nice 72 Challenger and doing a stroker small block with a race pan, a sorted trans, driveshaft and diff, the full Hotchkiss upgrade with brakes and wheels/tires, and a decent cage and safety equipment, you are in some serious money. It would also likely be a backrunner compared to something like the Camaro I posted, with a similar driver.

I enjoy the Grass Roots Motorsports challenge cars. Build something that is interesting using your intelligence and grit instead of going to a pro shop and getting the best tool for the track.

Let's face it, most street muscle cars would be limited by the driver, not the car. However, if the SCCA is serious about developing this class, they will have to do the usual limiting. Without it, it will become a single style car (whatever becomes the best tool) that is outrageous in cost to remain competitive. It's just the evolution of racing we have all seen. Perhaps if the class stays only local, no regional or national coverage, it could become like (ugh) Golf, where anyone can go out and have fun competing against the course and their own best, not run against Tiger Woods. That should be what true amateur solo racing should be, having fun and working to better your car and your skills.




It's already getting that way. last few years were all about the 2nd Gen Camaro. Last 2 years Top cars in the Good Guys autocross shootout were C2 and C3's. Guess what everyone is buying and building this Winter?

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1713015
12/21/14 06:06 PM
12/21/14 06:06 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,661
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,661
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Back in the late '90s, about '98, maybe '99 reading the rules it said that the mustangs could use a 10" wide rim, and my AMX was limited to a 9", maybe 8" I forget and don't have the rules anywhere close, and I looked for them a few minutes ago. Now do you think a '69 AMX stock can hold with an '90s mustang stock? ya RIGHT. I was also told by those in the know that lots of the rules for that class were made up by the cobra owners, so of course they made sure THEY had the rules advantage.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: 2015 SCCA CAM rules [Re: amxautox] #1713016
12/21/14 11:00 PM
12/21/14 11:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels Offline
enthusiast
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Escondido CA USA
I agree that late models on a full size racetrack have a bit of an advantage with modern engines, trans, brakes, ABS, traction controls, etc. However on a smaller Autocross track, a lighter more maneuverable older car can give em hell... Here are the times of our last San Diego SCCA pre-78 CAM cars:

8369758-image.jpg (213 downloads)
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