B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
#1711814
12/17/14 01:46 AM
12/17/14 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada
4speeds4me
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Sorrento, BC, Canada
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Hi Guys! I'm doing a 5.7 GenIII/A833 setup in a 68 Charger. I'd like to bring the car into the 21st Century for handling as much as possible, but also trying to respect the budget. My head starts swimming when I look at all the different options (adjustable strut rods, UCA's, etc) so I'm hoping you guys can give me a "best bang for the buck" list for the car?
Thanks in advance!
2 Demons...no, not my kids!
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Re: B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
[Re: dickdale]
#1711817
12/24/14 03:36 PM
12/24/14 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada
4speeds4me
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I kinda figured that went with out saying. The car is getting a 4-speed, so the torque boxes were happening regardless, and subframe connectors at the same time. My question is more to the suspension mods. Are uber adjustable UCA's worth it? QA1 tubular lowers? Fat T-bars? Sway bars? No offense to Dan@Hotchkis ...they make some nice stuff, but not totally budget friendly...at least not my budget... This is to be a daily driver that need to be able to handle the highway more like a new car. Will there be a noticeable enough difference in camber/caster adjustability with Moog offset bushings, or will adjustable UCA's be a must? Adjustable strut rods? I need advice on where the $ is best spent for now...
2 Demons...no, not my kids!
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Re: B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
[Re: 4speeds4me]
#1711818
12/24/14 05:35 PM
12/24/14 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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Pikes Peak Country
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In simplest terms, a modern car runs more wheel rate and has more aggressive alignment that is all support by a more rigid chassis.
To duplicate that, you will need to shore up the unibody flex and step up in the t-bar, s-bar, and leaf spring rates. That is where the package approach of Hotchkis is nice, however, Firm Feel can provide similar appointments in a piece meal approach or a packaged set. Unfortunately, t-bars and s-bars are not necessarily inexpensive, so you will have to pony up some dollars here for good pieces.
The alignment part is where some of the more adjustable suspension parts come into play. Without adjustable struts or upper arms, you can improve things quite a bit over stock by using offset upper bushings. However, the adjustable pieces can allow you to take that further into the higher performance realm. Think of it like building an engine; a few small bolt ons help step up power, but to really turn it loose, you have to get inside and deal with detailed work. Suspensions respond in much the same way.
So if your just driving around for pleasure, hitting the occasional show, or doing bracket drags once in a while, go with conservative springs rates, big anti-sway rates, as much shock as you can afford, subframe connectors, and an alignment comparable to a 2001 Mustang (this is easier for the techs to look up than giving them custom specs).
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Re: B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1711819
12/24/14 05:43 PM
12/24/14 05:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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Just a tidbit, doing some math with another persons formulas that has setup MANY successful race cars, with the KPI of our 73+ Abody spindles we should be running 7.5-9 degrees of positive caster at ride height with -1 degree of camber to get our front tires to keep MAXIMUM available contact patch in all situations. Seems extreme until see the alignment specs of new Vettes, Vipers, Benz and the like.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1711823
12/25/14 06:32 PM
12/25/14 06:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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Quote:
Just a tidbit, doing some math with another persons formulas that has setup MANY successful race cars, with the KPI of our 73+ Abody spindles we should be running 7.5-9 degrees of positive caster at ride height with -1 degree of camber to get our front tires to keep MAXIMUM available contact patch in all situations. Seems extreme until see the alignment specs of new Vettes, Vipers, Benz and the like.
Absolutely. And when you look at the impacts of dynamic caster on the dynamic camber curve and its relationship to body roll, you an easily see why its that high up there, never mind the actual feel of stability it imparts.
This is when you start getting serious about putting the grip down and stepping beyond just bolt on stuff. Again, the engine bolt on analogy applies here.
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Re: B-body, GenIII, First Timer Here...Best Bang For Buck?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1711824
12/25/14 07:20 PM
12/25/14 07:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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The theory is the more caster you can obtain, shoot for a caster number 1-2* higher than your spindle KPI. I believe the KPI or SAI number is what determines the amount of dynamic camber possible when the outside tire is turned and in a corner. The problem comes when people add a bunch of static camber, any static negative camber while helping the outside tire in a corner, does the opposite to the inside tire as far as contact patch. In a nut shell the more caster you can run, the less static neg camber is required. Also the Mopar A-body front suspension gains caster on compression which is good for the outside tire but bad for the inside.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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