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Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
#1700144
11/17/14 07:38 PM
11/17/14 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
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he has a 58 Plymouth Christine Clone....I asked him to give me the cam details like 18 months back. He found the parts recently. The patient has, she has a 440, Dominator manifold, 750 Edelbrock, she couldn't get out of her own way and had real bad detonation before I got to her....For a good while there she didn't have a kickdown installed either so maybe the trans has internal damage as well but I havent seen her go faster than 35mph. She is a cruiser. He has an MTD-2 Melling Camshaft .443 lift/ 214@ 050 Melling MTD-2 He has a Hughes Performance 2500 stall seen here http://www.jegs.com/i/Hughes-Performance/512/24-25/10002/-1 He says he has a Dana Rear end with 3.30+ gear ratio. I don't recall the compression but from the pic I see its domed with a section milled off so lets just place it at 9.5:1 I think his cam is way too small given his rear end ratio and converter. I have her dialed in to a modest 36º, closest I could get her going without too much detonation. He doesn't want to open the engine...would rather drop the trans and swap out the Converter if need be.... Thoughts?
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1700146
11/17/14 08:18 PM
11/17/14 08:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Quote:
750 Edelbrock <----- that's the problem.
For those who cannot tune...
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#1700148
11/17/14 08:29 PM
11/17/14 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
750 Edelbrock <----- that's the problem.
For those who cannot tune...
It's funny how the same people are always posting the same thing about Edelbrock 750 carbs. 
I guess if it requires learning a new skill it's a problem for some. 
Problem is the Edelbrock cannot take fuel pressure and volume like a Holley. 
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: Pyper70]
#1700149
11/17/14 08:30 PM
11/17/14 08:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Cam too small, carb too big, converter too big, 36 degrees what? Initial? initial + mechanical? initial+mechanical+vacuum? What ignition setup? Stupid question, but did you make sure the plug wires are going to the right places and are not running parallel to each other?
Myself? I'd add a bigger cam. If the static compression is high and you run a small cam the dynamic compression can be high cause detonation. Double check that the carb isn't too lean, that'll cause detonation as well. Look at the plugs, if they are white there you go.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#1700150
11/17/14 08:43 PM
11/17/14 08:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
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Nothing wrong with the 750 Edelbrock...it was my carburetor and I put it on his motor because the 750 Double Pumper Holley was spitting out black smoke up the wazoo and neither one of us had spare parts to calibrate it. My 750 was running perfect when I removed it and replaced it with Two 500s
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: Supercuda]
#1700152
11/17/14 08:54 PM
11/17/14 08:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,903
Athens, Greece
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Quote:
Cam too small, carb too big, converter too big, 36 degrees what? Initial? initial + mechanical? initial+mechanical+vacuum? What ignition setup? Stupid question, but did you make sure the plug wires are going to the right places and are not running parallel to each other?
Myself? I'd add a bigger cam. If the static compression is high and you run a small cam the dynamic compression can be high cause detonation. Double check that the carb isn't too lean, that'll cause detonation as well. Look at the plugs, if they are white there you go.
I had her setup with 18º initial so she can start easy. he isn't too mechanically inclined. I hit the 36º total. She probably would have liked 38-40 too but she wouldn't move with that setting.
Mopar Electronic Ignition with an orange box, MSD coil...MSD wires...I checked the plug wires and verified they are going to the right spots....
I told him to leave the TC and go with a 478 Crower mechanical.....he doesn't want to remove the front fascia/radiator and tear into the motor...
some numbnut told him to go buy a 1200 stall converter and he thought he'd ask me. I am more or less out of the game as far as fixing cars so I can't open a motor anymore. All I can be is a spectator. I can't even remove a radiator hose anymore
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: Pyper70]
#1700153
11/17/14 09:34 PM
11/17/14 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Can you still go at it one handed?
I know being down one side puts a hurting on things but I try to keep up to speed on my off hand. I can do just about everything left handed short of writing.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: feets]
#1700154
11/17/14 09:52 PM
11/17/14 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
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If it ran the same with another carb verify the timing marks and run a compression test to start.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1700156
11/17/14 10:24 PM
11/17/14 10:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,366
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,366
Omaha Ne
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Quote:
If it ran the same with another carb verify the timing marks and run a compression test to start.
I'm with Matt, Verify the timing 9 easy to do, and establish what they cylinder pressure is before jumping into a bunch of changes 
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: Pyper70]
#1700158
11/17/14 10:54 PM
11/17/14 10:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I bet compression is 10-10.5 that is why you can not run more timing. It will want 40 total. A compression test will tell you if you got too much dynamic compression.
The 750 eddy seems to me to work good on a stone stock BB, when the motor is moded is when they seem to be un tune-able.
I think the oarnge box could be the problem, my 68 dart would just lay over around 3000 rpm with it, put in a parts store generic one after the orange one quit completely and it pulled hard to 5000. Just a couple weeks back a friend brought in his valiant 318 low compression motor with an orange box and wanted me to help him tune it just a bit and timing was jumping all over around 3000 when I tried to set the total timing, swapped in an ancient mallory box and timing was steady as a rock after that, he did not report back about drivability but the big burnout he did when he left makes me think the tune did him some good, would not turn a tire before.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1700159
11/17/14 11:00 PM
11/17/14 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
750 Edelbrock <----- that's the problem.
For those who cannot tune...
hahaha yeah ok.. keep telling yourself that.
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1700161
11/18/14 01:22 AM
11/18/14 01:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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What Dave said: what is the cranking compression. I'm wondering what RPM does the curve stop at. what octane.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Trying to diagnose my buddy's pig
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1700163
11/18/14 11:37 AM
11/18/14 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Come to Stanton for the Pure Stock Drags and pose your difficulty to the following people:
Bob Karakashian...
Paul Petcou...
Tom Hoover...
They may offer some guidance...
They run Eddy 750s in pure stock? 
and they run TWO... look I'm 1/2 kidding. Those carbs are junk compared to a Holley. I'd rather run a factory AVS or AFB than an brand new Eddy 750. Really it should run ok even with the Eddy. You need to go back to the basics and work on the tune. It shouldn't be knocking at 36* assuming you have the vac advance disconnected. Maybe you have the distrib one wire off. Go allll the way back.. bring it to TDC, check the rotor phase, turn the adjustment screws all the way in and back out 1 turn, fire the car up and bring it up to 2400, set you timing at 36*, bring it back down to 800 rpm or so, adjust for best vacuum and go take a hard romp. 2500 should be enough stall for that cam. If the car isn't burning the tires up something is wrong.
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