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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1698223
11/14/14 02:09 PM
11/14/14 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
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If you really don't want to tear into it and have a place to store the 273, then start calling salvage yards until you find one with a running, low mileage 5.2 magnum. Swap out the efi intake for a standard manifold, carb it, bolt it up to your 904 and drive the piss out of it for under $800.
Then you can decide later if you really want to continue working on it after daily driving a Gen 3 Challenger.
Don't forget buy a new oil pan cause that 273 pan won't fit a 5.2 Magnum.
I had figured an oil pan and intake woud be needed to put the 5.2 into the Dart and have it function with a minimum of hassle.
Having fallen victom to scope creep on projects and having a car off the road for years and years, I can attest that it sucks wind to look at piles of parts collecting dust while trying to work out "ultimate".
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Where im going with this is the Viper T56 is THE best fitting T56 in an A-body period, and if you keep your eye out can save some money over a Magnum.
This is where you can keep time on your side. Get things running with what you have now. That gives you the luxery of looking for specific pieces at better prices than having a car down and waiting on a specific part or having to pay a premium to get it right now .
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1698224
11/14/14 03:01 PM
11/14/14 03:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Couple of things I ran into when putting an 87 318 in my 65 Cuda. The 273 exhaust manifolds hit the bump cast below the exhaust port for air injection, had to grind it off. The manifolds also do not fit easily. The exhaust port in the heads is almost bigger than sealing surface on the manifolds, careful positioning is needed there. Obviously you have the issue with the torque converter snout being smaller than the centering ring in the crank.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: Supercuda]
#1698226
11/14/14 10:34 PM
11/14/14 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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I would jam an M-body 318 in it, 85-up 2bbl engine. Easiest possible swap to keep the car running and get a little extra performance. They are also really cheap.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: RylisPro]
#1698227
11/15/14 01:20 AM
11/15/14 01:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
I say get both cars in 6 speeds because they are each unique and will not be boring at all. I have two 6 speed cars and when you don't drive one car for a month it feels way different, like you're being re-acquainted. Kind of like having two girlfriends that know about each other and when you sleep with one after a month it makes you yell "damn you feel great!" Having only one hobby car would get boring for me, maybe that's why I'm still single? Haha
See, I was kind of thinking along the same lines... Although they've both got the same "personality" the Challenger is the comfortable curvy gf while the Dart is that edgy skinny chick on the side.
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I also say to save up above what you plan to buy before even thinking of purchasing that item because there are always extra costs involved. I saved up a bunch way before I got my T56 Magnum to cover all the installation expenses. Same went for the cage, suspension, brakes, fuel cell, etc. I saved up enough capital and then some before I went and tackled a modification project.
This is usually what I like to do when I think about the Dart. I had bought the TVS and the brakes long before I even started working on the Dart.
If I don't get a Challenger than I'm going to want a full-ish interior in the Dart. I'm not a fan of having a back seat with a cage. And I have hip problems and therefore don't have much flexibility, so if I get a cage, I'd like to get the low side impact member.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: goldduster318]
#1698228
11/15/14 03:40 AM
11/15/14 03:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Couple of things I ran into when putting an 87 318 in my 65 Cuda. The 273 exhaust manifolds hit the bump cast below the exhaust port for air injection, had to grind it off. The manifolds also do not fit easily. The exhaust port in the heads is almost bigger than sealing surface on the manifolds, careful positioning is needed there. Obviously you have the issue with the torque converter snout being smaller than the centering ring in the crank.
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The easiest "right now" swap would be the LA 318. They have not been made new for quite a while, so it may take a while to find a used engine which is OK "as is". Also the smog era 318's are pretty feeble.
A Magnum 5.9/360 would be a nice big step up in power. Depending on how long you need to run it before the Gen III swap may be worth it... plus used engines should be more readily available. MA had a good series on "warming up" a 5.9 for car use.
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I would jam an M-body 318 in it, 85-up 2bbl engine. Easiest possible swap to keep the car running and get a little extra performance. They are also really cheap.
I know a lot on the 273 won't bolt up to a 360. I was somewhat aware of the exhaust manifold issue and potentially an oil pan issue. At most I'd only keep a 318 or 360 in there for 2-3 years or so. If the 273 is able to survive long enough, I might as well just skip the small block step and go to a GEN III.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1698229
11/15/14 12:25 PM
11/15/14 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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If the 273 runs I don't understand why you'd want to go through the time, trouble, and expense of a temporary engine.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1698231
11/15/14 03:29 PM
11/15/14 03:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
I know a lot on the 273 won't bolt up to a 360. I was somewhat aware of the exhaust manifold issue and potentially an oil pan issue. At most I'd only keep a 318 or 360 in there for 2-3 years or so. If the 273 is able to survive long enough, I might as well just skip the small block step and go to a GEN III.
Samy, I'm going to be brutally honest here, which I know is not popular on the inter-web, but here goes. After assessing the cars progress so far, and the time it's taken on the TVS install, I'm going to say a gen 3 Hemi conversion is the last thing you should be considering. Every single part from motor mounts to headers to you name it needs to be changed in a Hemi swap. A 360 requires an oil pan and manifolds (which i have two sets laying in front of me). That's it. Or just leave the dang 273 in there and get to racin'. Anyway, I know sometimes people who ask for advice really aren't asking, and they want to do want they want to do. While you're pontificating about expensive wheels and T56s and Hemis, I'm out there with $99 Mustang Wheels, and old a833, and a 360 racing...
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1698232
11/15/14 04:13 PM
11/15/14 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I know a lot on the 273 won't bolt up to a 360. I was somewhat aware of the exhaust manifold issue and potentially an oil pan issue. At most I'd only keep a 318 or 360 in there for 2-3 years or so. If the 273 is able to survive long enough, I might as well just skip the small block step and go to a GEN III.
Samy, I'm going to be brutally honest here, which I know is not popular on the inter-web, but here goes. After assessing the cars progress so far, and the time it's taken on the TVS install, I'm going to say a gen 3 Hemi conversion is the last thing you should be considering. Every single part from motor mounts to headers to you name it needs to be changed in a Hemi swap. A 360 requires an oil pan and manifolds (which i have two sets laying in front of me). That's it. Or just leave the dang 273 in there and get to racin'. Anyway, I know sometimes people who ask for advice really aren't asking, and they want to do want they want to do. While you're pontificating about expensive wheels and T56s and Hemis, I'm out there with $99 Mustang Wheels, and old a833, and a 360 racing...
Nailed it, the reason he has no wheels is he cannot get over using a spacer. I thing some people are so afraid of mistakes that they never get anything done!
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1698233
11/15/14 04:56 PM
11/15/14 04:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I know a lot on the 273 won't bolt up to a 360. I was somewhat aware of the exhaust manifold issue and potentially an oil pan issue. At most I'd only keep a 318 or 360 in there for 2-3 years or so. If the 273 is able to survive long enough, I might as well just skip the small block step and go to a GEN III.
Samy, I'm going to be brutally honest here, which I know is not popular on the inter-web, but here goes. After assessing the cars progress so far, and the time it's taken on the TVS install, I'm going to say a gen 3 Hemi conversion is the last thing you should be considering. Every single part from motor mounts to headers to you name it needs to be changed in a Hemi swap. A 360 requires an oil pan and manifolds (which i have two sets laying in front of me). That's it. Or just leave the dang 273 in there and get to racin'. Anyway, I know sometimes people who ask for advice really aren't asking, and they want to do want they want to do. While you're pontificating about expensive wheels and T56s and Hemis, I'm out there with $99 Mustang Wheels, and old a833, and a 360 racing...
Nailed it, the reason he has no wheels is he cannot get over using a spacer. I thing some people are so afraid of mistakes that they never get anything done!
Thanks for the honesty guys. And for the record, the reason why I'm not able to get anything done is because I've got no free time. I'm working or at school from 8am to 5 or 6 pm at night (doesn't include driving home) and once I get home I've got homework to do. I haven't had a free weekend since September because all I've been doing is working on homework, studying for tests, and working on other projects. There's no point in me worrying about a car when I'm trying to graduate. If I don't pass all of my classes, I won't have my job secured in March. Screw me for being responsible and putting my Dart off to the side for a couple months to focus on my career and future.
And yes, I don't like making mistakes and when things go wrong it stresses and bugs the hell out of me. Yes, I'm afraid of screwing things up, I admitted it, but what's wrong with that? The only way to fix all of that is by going in there and doing it. And I'm not opposed to going the small block route. As I said early, it keeps things simple. I was leaning with the Gen III idea because a good portion of the people in this thread were pushing me to go in that direction. Tom, if I find a 360, I'd be happy to drive on down to pick up your manifolds and oil pan. It's kind of hard to drive the Dart over to test the Mustang wheels when I don't have wheels to drive the Dart down there.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1698235
11/16/14 12:14 AM
11/16/14 12:14 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Gen 3 with 6 speed is not for the faint of heart. Just keep that in mind.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: 340duster340]
#1698236
11/16/14 12:49 AM
11/16/14 12:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quote:
your doing the right thing putting school first. get that "junk" out of the way and then you can have room to breath on your personal life, projects, etc. and reevaluate what you want to do
Like pay off student loans, buy a house, fix up a house, get married, pay for a honeymoon, have kids, take vacations, remodel the kitchen, pay medical bills, buy a bigger house, install a pool, pay for kids college, pay for daughters wedding, get divorced, plan for retirement, and then work on your car. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: jcc]
#1698237
11/16/14 10:10 AM
11/16/14 10:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
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Quote:
Quote:
your doing the right thing putting school first. get that "junk" out of the way and then you can have room to breath on your personal life, projects, etc. and reevaluate what you want to do
Like pay off student loans, buy a house, fix up a house, get married, pay for a honeymoon, have kids, take vacations, remodel the kitchen, pay medical bills, buy a bigger house, install a pool, pay for kids college, pay for daughters wedding, get divorced, plan for retirement, and then work on your car.
That's what I was thinkin' 
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I haven't had a free weekend since September because all I've been doing is working on homework, studying for tests, and working on other projects.
I can't remember the last time I had a completely "Free" weekend and I don't have little ones running around.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: 68KillerBee]
#1698240
11/17/14 01:07 PM
11/17/14 01:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I say quit screwing around.
Figure out your long term goal. Then sit down and see if there is anything doable today that will facilitate that goal. Then do that. Don't do things you will have to redo.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Short and Long Term Drivetrain Options For The Dart...
[Re: Supercuda]
#1698241
11/17/14 05:42 PM
11/17/14 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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If you've got the $$ then you can buy the time; if you don't have the $$ then you have to spend the time.
Don't be wasteful with the expenses.
Spend wisely and look forward to how, where, why and when you'll be using the car... its purpose? Allow for easy future changes when that time comes, and at reasonably low cost. The high-priced mods shouldn't be done frequently - again, determine and spend wisely.
You don't have to spend a lot of $$ to have a satisfying and competative car.
Like a painter -- most of the time is spent in preparation before doing the final work. Doing it over ends up costing more time and $$.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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