|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: RylisPro]
#1687194
10/19/14 03:26 PM
10/19/14 03:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
So when you add all the power adders that are required to make Ford 4.6 worth 2 S$$t's how much does it weigh? No advantage to those engines whatsoever.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#1687195
10/19/14 04:13 PM
10/19/14 04:13 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
|
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
Mopar Action magazine had a bit where they spoke with a 3G engineer. They had plans to build the 5.7 from aluminum but found that cast iron suited the needs better in terms of long term durability. Remember, the "Coyote" engine didn't get installed in the F-150 for 300,000 mile durability.
The 5.7 Hemi was expected to be a long lasting engine in the same vein as the Slant six and 318. I say "mission accomplished". My 2007 has 210,000 and still idles and runs like new. It burns some oil but is otherwise solid as a rock. I can only imagine how an aluminum block would have failed after the stresses of towing, running in 110 degree heat and 200,000 + miles of use. Look at the Cummins Diesel engines. THOSE are as heavy as you could ever imagine, again for durability and longevity. Granted, the high compression and vibration of Diesel engines impart greater stress, but you get the idea, right?
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#1687196
10/19/14 04:50 PM
10/19/14 04:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hey Goody do you have your car's weight before you pulled your LA small block?
When you put in your Gen 3 and your T56 Magnum, please weigh your car.
That's the real weight I want to know
I'll let you know. My iron headed/alum intake 318/904 weighed as follows. I'll be at least a year out on my swap.
Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.
My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.
Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/19/14 04:53 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1687197
10/19/14 05:03 PM
10/19/14 05:03 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
|
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
|
Quote:
Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.
My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.
Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.
Aluminum radiator
Full length headers with a pretty heavy 3" exhaust
Trunk mounted battery
Electric fan
Manual brakes w/alum master but also 11-3/4" fronts...which are pretty heavy.
8-3/4" rear
Full interior
17" and 18" wheels, rears are 295/45/18. I don't have the weight off hand, but the wheels are just plain American Racing, nothing light or intended for racing.
I wouldn't say it is/was much lighter than the average ride.
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#1687198
10/19/14 05:54 PM
10/19/14 05:54 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
|
Quote:
Quote:
Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.
My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.
Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.
Aluminum radiator
Full length headers with a pretty heavy 3" exhaust
Trunk mounted battery
Electric fan
Manual brakes w/alum master but also 11-3/4" fronts...which are pretty heavy.
8-3/4" rear
Full interior
17" and 18" wheels, rears are 295/45/18. I don't have the weight off hand, but the wheels are just plain American Racing, nothing light or intended for racing.
I wouldn't say it is/was much lighter than the average ride.
40 lbs battery in rear will shift rear weight bias 1.8% to rear. Most 700CCA batteries are 45 lbs.
Headers weigh significantly less than stock cast iron. Especially if they are not Dougs or TTI's.
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1687199
10/20/14 05:07 AM
10/20/14 05:07 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
|
Quote:
My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.
Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.
Steve, was that 3412lb scaled weight with you in the drivers seat or empty?
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1687201
10/20/14 06:17 AM
10/20/14 06:17 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
|
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
|
Quote:
Quote:
Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...
Put one in your Mopar then. Get it to 50/50. You've got a few months till the shootout race. You can prove the superiority of all things aluminum {sarcasm}
You know... at this point i probably would if i could. Dont suppose you want to wire it up for me...
Quote:
75-100 lb is no big deal IMO. And the chassis is fine. If you're having trouble with the 'crap' chassis you should tune it. Dial it in. Change some spring rates. Change alignment. Change the way you drive. Spend some quality time on a Skidpad (if your oiling system is up to it).
I agree with you on the chassis bit... but 75-100lbs 'no big deal'...??? Did you hit your head? To some racers finding 10 unneeded pounds in one spot is a big deal, but close to 100...??? right over the notoriously nose-heavy front end ov these cars...??? Would you run a serious race with a 100lb passenger? How about if they were strapped to the hood...???
On an E-body (the worst) this an even bigger deal.
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1687202
10/20/14 06:31 AM
10/20/14 06:31 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
|
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
|
Quote:
So when you add all the power adders that are required to make Ford 4.6 worth 2 S$$t's how much does it weigh? No advantage to those engines whatsoever.
The 20 year old 4.6DOHC will make enough RWHP with bolt-ons to run a 3500lb Mustang well into the 11's. Actually build the bottom end (with some compression and better rods) and you can dip tens. Actually spend some money... and i'm talking no more money than the average Mopar build here... and you can make 400-450RWHP. Again, in a 3500lb Mustang, thats enough power to run 10's. Its kinda ov odd the numbers never quite seem to impress... yet, the performance does. Maybe mods are like Buicks... ('Buick math is different')? They god damn RUN. Why does it seem take the average Mopar 500HP to run into the 11's, yet a 281cid Ford can do it with so much less? I could care less about the dyno brag at this point... If my theoretical 4.6 swap happened (it wont), that'd be one fast car. To say nothing ov the advantages it would have cornering... with that 410-425lb engine up front. Thats over 50lbs lighter than a slant-6...
Thats not even getting into the already proven over and over and over superiority ov the new Coyote (with its mind blowingly huge 302cid). No boost or NOS needed. Mods are ALLLLLLLL about N/A power as far as i'm concerned. I dont expect to win any coverts here, but dont tell me those aren't wicked little powerplants.
Ignore technology at your own peril. Hell... even the import guys are catching up... and they've got NOTHING to work with cid-wise...
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1687203
10/20/14 06:38 AM
10/20/14 06:38 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
|
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
|
Quote:
Mopar Action magazine had a bit where they spoke with a 3G engineer. They had plans to build the 5.7 from aluminum but found that cast iron suited the needs better in terms of long term durability. Remember, the "Coyote" engine didn't get installed in the F-150 for 300,000 mile durability.
The 5.7 Hemi was expected to be a long lasting engine in the same vein as the Slant six and 318. I say "mission accomplished". My 2007 has 210,000 and still idles and runs like new. It burns some oil but is otherwise solid as a rock. I can only imagine how an aluminum block would have failed after the stresses of towing, running in 110 degree heat and 200,000 + miles of use. Look at the Cummins Diesel engines. THOSE are as heavy as you could ever imagine, again for durability and longevity. Granted, the high compression and vibration of Diesel engines impart greater stress, but you get the idea, right?
Yes, thats all elementary. Ford didn't put any aluminum into its trucks either. They had iron blocks for trucks, and aluminum for the performance cars... hell, even the T-Birds. I also understand that Ford has 7000 times as much money as Dodge, but holy HELL those SRT cars could use a weight break! Would a semi-limited run have killed them?
Someone told me last week the new Hellcat weighs 4450lbs... That CANNOT be right...
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1687204
10/20/14 07:18 AM
10/20/14 07:18 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
I got into the 11's with 365 rwhp. So what that it was with a $3000 station wagon motor. We could go on for days about cheap and fast this and that. I do it my way because it isnt like other people and doesnt follow the masses. I cant wait to get my over weight Gen III HEME running.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: amxautox]
#1687206
10/20/14 04:19 PM
10/20/14 04:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
Never dynoed it, it went 11.96 at 112 weighing 3420 at 2300ft.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1687207
10/20/14 04:20 PM
10/20/14 04:20 PM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...
Put one in your Mopar then. Get it to 50/50. You've got a few months till the shootout race. You can prove the superiority of all things aluminum {sarcasm}
You know... at this point i probably would if i could. Dont suppose you want to wire it up for me...
Quote:
75-100 lb is no big deal IMO. And the chassis is fine. If you're having trouble with the 'crap' chassis you should tune it. Dial it in. Change some spring rates. Change alignment. Change the way you drive. Spend some quality time on a Skidpad (if your oiling system is up to it).
I agree with you on the chassis bit... but 75-100lbs 'no big deal'...??? Did you hit your head? To some racers finding 10 unneeded pounds in one spot is a big deal, but close to 100...??? right over the notoriously nose-heavy front end ov these cars...??? Would you run a serious race with a 100lb passenger? How about if they were strapped to the hood...???
On an E-body (the worst) this an even bigger deal.
Sure, I'll help you wire it.
I've hit my head a lot of times. But 75-100 lbs for $4300 at or below the COG is not worth it for a 3600 lb track day car that has yet to reach it's potential.
Last edited by uhcoog1; 10/20/14 04:29 PM.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1687208
10/20/14 09:43 PM
10/20/14 09:43 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
|
I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Gen 3 Hemi 427 crate motors are (4.125 bore x 4.00 stroke) all aluminum.
Supposedly 100 lbs. less
Lets call it a 426. I dont care if its 1cid bigger... 427 is a Chevy/Ford engine.
190lb blocks? Christ. Things are supposed to get BETTER with technology... not worse. Who thought this one through in the design stages? You can find big block blocks that weigh that if you weigh a few...
I thought those new 7L hemis weren't available?
According to a very vocal engineer on another large mopar site, to make an aluminum block as rigid as an iron one means it almost weighs the same when its all said and done. You need X amount of aluminum material to = iron strength, and it's apparently quite a bit.
For the cost and 100# savings, I can see why they've been avoiding it.
Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: SRT6776]
#1687209
10/20/14 10:18 PM
10/20/14 10:18 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
|
Quote:
Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.
So are we going to see production all aluminum engines in cars and hopefully all aluminum crate engines as well?
Maybe volume sales will drive down the costs
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: RylisPro]
#1687210
10/20/14 10:24 PM
10/20/14 10:24 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
|
I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
|
Quote:
Quote:
Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.
So are we going to see production all aluminum engines in cars and hopefully all aluminum crate engines as well?
Maybe volume sales will drive down the costs
They already make aluminum block G3 crates - you'll see the cost issue first hand though X10..lol
I figure the next gen V8 will lose the hemi name and be named EcoTorque or something equally as silly, but be aluminum, direct injected etc
|
|
|
Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?
[Re: SRT6776]
#1687211
10/20/14 10:35 PM
10/20/14 10:35 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
|
Quote:
They already make aluminum block G3 crates - you'll see the cost issue first hand though X10..lol
I figure the next gen V8 will lose the hemi name and be named EcoTorque or something equally as silly, but be aluminum, direct injected etc
Yeah I am getting quotes from Arrow Racing Engines...it's not funny haha!
How far off would next gen all aluminum engines be in production cars?
|
|
|
|
|
