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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1683732
10/11/14 07:14 AM
10/11/14 07:14 AM
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Well, the video does show he was running in the 160 class, which means he was not sustaining 190 mph speeds over extremely long times, but hitting them at peaks.
However, with that, even the Nascar boys in '68 were running 170+ in stock bodied Chargers. Add a few aero pieces like on this Charger, and 190 shots aren't out of the question.
Curious... you think a 70 Challenger would fare better at those insane speeds than a 68 Charger? All else being equal (even weight)? Its definitely a more slippery design...
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1683733
10/11/14 10:06 AM
10/11/14 10:06 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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Houston Tx
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Well, the video does show he was running in the 160 class, which means he was not sustaining 190 mph speeds over extremely long times, but hitting them at peaks.
However, with that, even the Nascar boys in '68 were running 170+ in stock bodied Chargers. Add a few aero pieces like on this Charger, and 190 shots aren't out of the question.
Curious... you think a 70 Challenger would fare better at those insane speeds than a 68 Charger? All else being equal (even weight)? Its definitely a more slippery design...
Only thing that matters at that speed is aero. Neither are good. If you made similar aero mods you would be close.
Keep in mind drag matters, but really stability is arguably more important at those speeds. Particularly lift, front and rear.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1683734
10/11/14 02:13 PM
10/11/14 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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Quote:
Curious... you think a 70 Challenger would fare better at those insane speeds than a 68 Charger? All else being equal (even weight)? Its definitely a more slippery design...
stock for stock, hard to say. Both have crappy recessed grills. The Charger also has the recessed back light, but does have extra wheelbase, which is a factor in stability.
I'm sure you can reasonably easily dig up aero numbers on the classic Chargers since they evolved into the 500s and then the Daytonas. Classic Challengers are a bit harder to come by, but since they have the SCCA history, I'm sure there are figures out there for them as well.
As shown here, it only takes a few mods to give them some capability for high speed. With creative application of those mods,they could be made streetable without being too ugly. Yeah, that big slab of a nose cover helped the aero, but it is butt ugly, IMO. A flush mount grill with close knit mesh for the grill opening would look better and still provide a significant aero gain.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1683737
10/12/14 04:08 AM
10/12/14 04:08 AM
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Quote:
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Curious... you think a 70 Challenger would fare better at those insane speeds than a 68 Charger? All else being equal (even weight)? Its definitely a more slippery design...
stock for stock, hard to say. Both have crappy recessed grills. The Charger also has the recessed back light, but does have extra wheelbase, which is a factor in stability.
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I'm sure you can reasonably easily dig up aero numbers on the classic Chargers since they evolved into the 500s and then the Daytonas. Classic Challengers are a bit harder to come by, but since they have the SCCA history, I'm sure there are figures out there for them as well.
As shown here, it only takes a few mods to give them some capability for high speed. With creative application of those mods,they could be made streetable without being too ugly. Yeah, that big slab of a nose cover helped the aero, but it is butt ugly, IMO. A flush mount grill with close knit mesh for the grill opening would look better and still provide a significant aero gain.
The grille would obviously get blocked. But i'd just put something simple and non-stock looking up there. ANY attempts at trying to gain aero there and even remotely look stock would be an abject failure, and would certainly look worse than a plain plate. Thats a drastic mod on a sexy car... i guarantee you it'd look awful.
I also wonder what the top speed difference would be with that mod and without on these particularly bad cars (Challenger, Charger). If it was worth 15+mph i think it'd be worth it, if it was more like 8, i think i'd leave it open personally. Looks count for something in my build.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1683738
10/12/14 04:14 AM
10/12/14 04:14 AM
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I've attended that race several times and have navigated for a driver.
It takes balls to run that kind ov speed for sure, but it'd take more balls to be the navigator... I couldn't do it. I'm pretty comfy at illegal speed on highways... but to have to sit there with NO control... Heh... i couldn't do it. I dont even like 70-80mph from the passenger seat...
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Let me tell you, that is a scary course at high speeds, especially on a crowned two lane blacktop in the hilly areas doted with roadside trees. It is NOT an easy course! For a guy to show up in a new car, for the first time on the course, and with no navigator in the 160 class, then to win it within 2 seconds of the goal time? That is phenomenal! 
There is nothing not phenomenal about that entire effort. Thats why it stuck in my head all these years...
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1683739
10/12/14 10:47 AM
10/12/14 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70
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Quote:
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I've attended that race several times and have navigated for a driver.
It takes balls to run that kind ov speed for sure, but it'd take more balls to be the navigator... I couldn't do it. I'm pretty comfy at illegal speed on highways... but to have to sit there with NO control... Heh... i couldn't do it. I dont even like 70-80mph from the passenger seat...
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Let me tell you, that is a scary course at high speeds, especially on a crowned two lane blacktop in the hilly areas doted with roadside trees. It is NOT an easy course! For a guy to show up in a new car, for the first time on the course, and with no navigator in the 160 class, then to win it within 2 seconds of the goal time? That is phenomenal!
There is nothing not phenomenal about that entire effort. Thats why it stuck in my head all these years...
 I couldn't be a navigator either!
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1683740
10/12/14 01:52 PM
10/12/14 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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Quote:
The grille would obviously get blocked. But i'd just put something simple and non-stock looking up there. ANY attempts at trying to gain aero there and even remotely look stock would be an abject failure, and would certainly look worse than a plain plate. Thats a drastic mod on a sexy car... i guarantee you it'd look awful.
I also wonder what the top speed difference would be with that mod and without on these particularly bad cars (Challenger, Charger). If it was worth 15+mph i think it'd be worth it, if it was more like 8, i think i'd leave it open personally. Looks count for something in my build.
I dunno, it really depends on how you approach this on what the results will look like. The 72-74 Challenger grills are a step up in aero because they are not recessed. If you created something that looked more like a '72 Charger that was more forward with a more closed layout, then backed up the ribs with mesh, you can have a grill that looks OEM that has improved aero.
That's were digging on aero info may give you an idea. I'm sure there is detailed info on what the changes from standard Charger to 500 were for the grill change. Challenger is similar in size and layout and may be similar in potential gains.
Even the Nascar boys got big gains from closed mesh screens mounted flush. They allow just enough airflow though them to avoid overheating, but push the majority of the air around them.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1683742
10/13/14 08:32 AM
10/13/14 08:32 AM
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We'll never agree on this, and thats fine. I'll take the mph hit, unless its ridiculous. As Enzo Ferrari might suggest... maybe i'll just have to learn how to build a better engine...
The 72-4 Challengers were a lot better, and even subtle mods on them look decent (i like Tom's car), but the 70-71's grilles are way back in the clip, and they look damn good. Hell, they sell the car. Aside from converting it to a 72 and modifying that, stock aint gonna happen.
The 71-2 Chargers were also a lot better, and i've even seen the existing grille on one brought forward almost enough to be flush (maybe an inch? I forget... i was going to do this when i still had my 72). That could look good if it was done just right. Personally... the grille treatment was the ONLY thing i dont like about the 69 Charger 500... which is my favorite B-body. I dont think it looks good at all... no matter how stock it looks.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1683746
10/13/14 09:08 PM
10/13/14 09:08 PM
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I too was a huge fan of the Brick, especially before it started getting all the crazy big-buck stuff.
I must have slept through the "crazy big-buck stuff" phase of the Brick. Looking at it in the shop, I still fail to see anything crazy or big-buck.
What i liked best about it was the owner. Ehrenburg was just a crafty guy... always thinking... the consummate street-racer. But then when it started getting popular and needing more to win they just started throwing money at it and it lost something.
i]
So you wanted them to stop refining the car and run at the back every race? 
Obviously they had to keep gaining somehow... but when the checkbook came out it faded from the realm ov the everyman to just another cool project car many ov us could never replicate. For me anyways. Still one ov my favorites.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: brads70]
#1683747
10/13/14 09:15 PM
10/13/14 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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That spoiler helps a ton I'll bet. I noticed a difference just at hwy speeds when I installed mine. It felt more stable, not as "floaty"
I bet. My Challengers and my 72 Charger never quite felt 'solid' at any speed over legal ones. The Charger was particularly bad over 100. Cool thing is, the front dam is one place where you can get fairly drastic and still not lose the stock feel/look ov the car. That spoiler looks good.
And are those bulged fenders i see on that T/A...??? Tricky tricky...
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: brads70]
#1683748
10/14/14 12:01 AM
10/14/14 12:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
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Quote:
That spoiler helps a ton I'll bet. I noticed a difference just at hwy speeds when I installed mine. It felt more stable, not as "floaty"
[/quote
Are those Team III wheels or V48?
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: brads70]
#1683750
10/14/14 11:58 AM
10/14/14 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
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Senior Management
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Irving, TX
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IS there anything that can be done to help integrate that chin spoiler with the front of the Challenger?
I'm sure it's effective but it looks horribly tacky as it if was on sale at Pep Boys. It just doesn't "fit" the car. Perhaps if it rolled up the sides of the fenders it would look like a bit more thought went into it.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683751
10/15/14 05:18 AM
10/15/14 05:18 AM
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Quote:
IS there anything that can be done to help integrate that chin spoiler with the front of the Challenger?
I'm sure it's effective but it looks horribly tacky as it if was on sale at Pep Boys. It just doesn't "fit" the car. Perhaps if it rolled up the sides of the fenders it would look like a bit more thought went into it.
I'm building a T/A, and was just going to fab something out ov aluminum, attach it to the frame somehow, and round the edges to make it more stock looking, maybe actually run the braces through the valence so as not to have to attach it from the sides. I had in mind a stock-inspired T/A spoiler, but not split in the middle, and longer... as in at least twice as long. Paint it black and your average Chevy guy would probably walk right past it...
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