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Re: What would you like to see? [Re: AlexP] #1668473
09/08/14 02:35 AM
09/08/14 02:35 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:

355mm brakes that use a shelf slider style caliper like the first gen CTS-V/5th Gen camaro.




I think we'll leave that to the brake manufacturers.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668474
09/08/14 02:40 AM
09/08/14 02:40 AM
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Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
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I've wanted a 3 link ever since I converted a customer's (fox body mustang) car over to a global west 3 link setup.

Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 09/08/14 02:48 AM.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1668475
09/08/14 03:00 AM
09/08/14 03:00 AM
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Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Bitopia
As I understand the proper 3 link solution, you pretty much give up the back seat. Although the seat ts almost useless, they keep the back seat,and since its the norm most when installing a cage, something does not compute, and also consider those who refuse or the enthusiasts who just shy away from, simply cutting the floor for proper frame connectors.

For those mentioning the desire for a panhard bar or watts, not sure I see the need at this level, other then bling, and if the car is at 9/10ths, thee is little stopping anyone from fabbing their own, especially if their car is already decked out to 9/10's. The problem additionally with the watts, The OP can't solve, there is little room for a rear exit exhaust.

The weld in oil pan kit comment, Milodon/moroso seemed to drop it after decades selling it as a universal kit, because I suspect lack of demand.

How about a mopar specific spline quick release steering wheel hub?

An alum retrofit PS replacement housing.

Last edited by jcc; 09/08/14 04:17 AM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: moparAL] #1668476
09/08/14 03:02 AM
09/08/14 03:02 AM
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Posts: 1,212
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moparAL Offline
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Maybe offset rear shackle and offset front hanger kits, to fit Hotchkis rear leaf springs with a more narrow rear axel housing width. Example E-body, Hotchkis rear leaf springs with a B-body rear end housing to fit wider rear tires.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: jcc] #1668477
09/08/14 03:14 AM
09/08/14 03:14 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
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the 3 link we put in did not intrude inside the car, all under floor

here is one from Griggs
http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4312_4359_4425&products_id=18

It would be cool if we had that option for our cars

Oh - greaseable delrin bushings for the leaf springs, both the eye and the hangers

Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 09/08/14 03:16 AM.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668478
09/08/14 03:20 AM
09/08/14 03:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!
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Quote:

Quote:

Dan, I believe the only weakness in my TVS equipped Valiant compared to the best-in-class cars I've run against is the rear suspensions ability to put power down mid-corner. A properly designed 3-link has an advantage over my leaf springs. I think people would pay extra for something that really works well. I also think the wheels are a great idea, Mustang wheels work ok but the center hubs aren't wide enough for the front, and the easily available offsets aren't perfect for an A-body...




I'd love to do the 3 link and will put it on my list. # links are not as simple as everyone likes to think and aren't plug and play. There is a big difference in some thing that "works" and something that really "WORKS". The amount of tuning and knowledge needed to properly set up one of these rear ends is beyond the capabilities of most laymen. We worked for a week with the Pozzi's on drafting a users guide for the Camaro 3 link system and the complexity level got our of hand really quickly. Version 3 of the rear end has got a lot more of the guessing taken out of it, but we are not recommending that system for open purchase and may only sell it to preferred installers.




Again, if you need a car for R&D... I'd gladly let you guys use my Dart.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1668479
09/08/14 03:35 AM
09/08/14 03:35 AM
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Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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Quote:

the 3 link we put in did not intrude inside the car, all under floor

here is one from Griggs
http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4312_4359_4425&products_id=18

It would be cool if we had that option for our cars

Oh - greaseable delrin bushings for the leaf springs, both the eye and the hangers




I maybe wrong,but I have usually differentiated between a torque arm and the typical 3 link set-ups, although both have 3 main elements, and the torque arm is not a link?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668480
09/08/14 06:58 AM
09/08/14 06:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Do a run of Mopar specific rims and see if they sell....



that is a really good idea. We carry wheels for the newer muscle....
This is going on the list






Sidenote;
Maybe also look into of making factory stock appearing 'steelies', but made in aluminium in 15 and 17" size.
I'm sure you gain some market from the FAST guys and anyone who likes the stock look of Mopar but is still performance minded. The Ford crowd might like this too as their wheels have a very similar design.
I understand Handling puts a lot of strain on a wheel's design, especially in a lightweight material and liability might be a dealbreaker here, but I'm kinda positive this will be a nice opportunity to put this new item in the market.

8264242-MoparWheel.jpg (188 downloads)
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: AlexP] #1668481
09/08/14 09:09 AM
09/08/14 09:09 AM
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Posts: 5,337
the house on the left.
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cogen80 Offline
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Quote:

That aside, the A-body market is HUGE




the abody market may be huge but its also for the most part cheap as hell. there are some that will spend money but the majority are cheap.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: cogen80] #1668482
09/08/14 11:01 AM
09/08/14 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Quote:





the abody market may be huge but its also for the most part cheap as hell. there are some that will spend money but the majority are cheap.




And you know what? I agree with you on that! However, that is changing as other more traditionally popular B&E Body cars become less and less available and make less financial sense to modify, eyes are turning to what's left and they are paying more for them and spending more building them. Not to mention that if you plan on building a car to handle it only makes sense to start with the lightest car possible, pretty hard to beat and A-body in that category.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: cogen80] #1668483
09/08/14 11:05 AM
09/08/14 11:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376
NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
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I think that a torque-arm would be the best bang for your buck as a company. Fairly simple in parts but heavy on engineering. Having the 8 3/4 allows for bolt on mounts for the arm and use of the front sping hangers for the other two links. Use a watts link to square it up. I would do a combo of the Cortex and http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/rpss_fd.html
without the pushrod component for the shocks. If I had the engineering I would build my own. Similar wheel bases on the cars so probably would be close. I tried to work with Filip at Coretex but he became too busy on mustangs.

Last edited by HUSTLESTUFF; 09/08/14 11:08 AM.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: HUSTLESTUFF] #1668484
09/08/14 11:29 AM
09/08/14 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF Offline
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Then a nice line of stainless gas tanks with in tank pumps that fit around the watts link.


"Were in it to win it. Anything less will end up being..... A whole lot of fun doing!!" UNLAWFL
RIP UN
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668485
09/08/14 11:43 AM
09/08/14 11:43 AM
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Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Quote:


But you'll never hear the end of how their car went so fast that one time on that one track when no one was there, but they passed every GT-R/Viper/911GT3/Enzo at the track that day.
Sometimes you can't even lead the horse to water I suppose.






Is that a jab at me, Dan?

Alright, I'll bite. Lead this horse to water.

55/45 weight distribution. 3620 without driver.
Mopar 1.04" TB's, Mopar 0" arch leaf springs
1 5/16" .250 wall front sway bar, 3/4" solid rear bar
Offset UCA bushings, 1.7* camber, 7.0* caster
Hotchkis RCD Bilstein shocks

Show me the err in my ways.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Uhcoog1] #1668486
09/08/14 12:18 PM
09/08/14 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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AlexP Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


But you'll never hear the end of how their car went so fast that one time on that one track when no one was there, but they passed every GT-R/Viper/911GT3/Enzo at the track that day.
Sometimes you can't even lead the horse to water I suppose.






Is that a jab at me, Dan?

Alright, I'll bite. Lead this horse to water.

55/45 weight distribution. 3620 without driver.
Mopar 1.04" TB's, Mopar 0" arch leaf springs
1 5/16" .250 wall front sway bar, 3/4" solid rear bar
Offset UCA bushings, 1.7* camber, 7.0* caster
Hotchkis RCD Bilstein shocks

Show me the err in my ways.




I've photographed and driven this car. I've also seen people with E46 M3's get in it and say "Wow...I felt confident like it was my BMW!".

But torsion bars and shelf shocks don't work. Sell your car and buy a 5.0.


My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: OzHemi] #1668487
09/08/14 12:46 PM
09/08/14 12:46 PM
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Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


But I do agree that the A-body market is huge.




You would think, but our sales say otherwise. We sell over 5 times as much B&E as we do A body.




When I was retailing mopar stuff, I found this to be true as well. I've seen many an A body guy complain about it and protest otherwise, but as you say, the sales figures show otherwise.


Quote:


Marketing. Each segment we delve into gets as much back as the market gives. Look at our offerings for 1st and 2nd Gen Camaros. They get everything under the sun and have 3 Links coming. An initial "probe" is made into the market, and then it goes from there. And it is true, for some reason the Mopar guys have been the slowest to come around.





In light of this statement and looking at universal approaches that can spread costs over a larger market share, how about splined tubular sway bar systems. Yes, Speedway Engineering offers these, but they also deal more with professional racers. You seem to deal with more enthusiast crowds. Splined bars can be interchanged within many different makes/models and only the end links need to become more make specific. Inventory carry costs are shared among many different platforms so no one make can be burdened with inventory turns.

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe a panhard bar system?




Watts link instead.




I agree with an earlier quote that this may be getting beyond the average enthusiasts comfort/capability level. Yes, they are great tuning aids, but require additional mods to work out and require tuning to make work right.

Dan, without looking over the Hotchkis website in detail, what types of things does Hotchkis think are worth getting into? You mention you have some wheel offerings for later model cars. Obviously 1st Gen Camaros get everything under the sun, but how deep does Hotchkis want to dig? Stampings, forgings, castings, wheels, etc?

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Uhcoog1] #1668488
09/08/14 01:04 PM
09/08/14 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:




Is that a jab at me, Dan?






Nope, I didn't have you in mind when I made that comment, but if the shoe fits and you want to wear it, go ahead.

Quote:



Dan, without looking over the Hotchkis website in detail, what types of things does Hotchkis think are worth getting into? You mention you have some wheel offerings for later model cars. Obviously 1st Gen Camaros get everything under the sun, but how deep does Hotchkis want to dig? Stampings, forgings, castings, wheels, etc?




We work with a lot of different manufacturers for private label items, so nothing to too far out of the realm of possibility. We generally like to stick with bolt on items with minimal welding so someone doesn't have to wait for a full on bare metal build to incorporate our products.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668489
09/08/14 01:41 PM
09/08/14 01:41 PM
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Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Houston Tx
Quote:

Quote:




Is that a jab at me, Dan?






Nope, I didn't have you in mind when I made that comment, but if the shoe fits and you want to wear it, go ahead.






That's not me and I won't wear that shoe.


Here's my suggestion for new Hotchkis parts- make a correct wheel rate front sway bar for the 73+ A body K member. I doubt the market is large enough to warrant a full R&D on a 73-76 k member, but at the very least you can use the R&D from the early K member and get the wheel rate right on the 73-76 K.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Uhcoog1] #1668490
09/08/14 01:47 PM
09/08/14 01:47 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:


That's not me and I won't wear that shoe.


Here's my suggestion for new Hotchkis parts- make a correct wheel rate front sway bar for the 73+ A body K member. I doubt the market is large enough to warrant a full R&D on a 73-76 k member, but at the very least you can use the R&D from the early K member and get the wheel rate right on the 73-76 K.




Fair enough.

As to the 73-76 A bodies, what is the difference you are referring to? Just overall vehicle weight, or something I'm missing? I wasn't aware of any difference other than engine mounting style.

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1668491
09/08/14 01:55 PM
09/08/14 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,337
the house on the left.
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cogen80 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:





the abody market may be huge but its also for the most part cheap as hell. there are some that will spend money but the majority are cheap.




And you know what? I agree with you on that! However, that is changing as other more traditionally popular B&E Body cars become less and less available and make less financial sense to modify, eyes are turning to what's left and they are paying more for them and spending more building them. Not to mention that if you plan on building a car to handle it only makes sense to start with the lightest car possible, pretty hard to beat and A-body in that category.




oh i agree. the question is will enough abody guys open their wallet to make tooling up for parts worth it for a company. in my opinion i think it still a ways off. i'm an abody fan and would love to see it but take a look at a site like forabodiesonly.com , a few guys will spend but damn most are cheaper thean cheap.lol

Re: What would you like to see? [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1668492
09/08/14 02:18 PM
09/08/14 02:18 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Uhcoog1  Offline
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Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Quote:

Quote:


That's not me and I won't wear that shoe.


Here's my suggestion for new Hotchkis parts- make a correct wheel rate front sway bar for the 73+ A body K member. I doubt the market is large enough to warrant a full R&D on a 73-76 k member, but at the very least you can use the R&D from the early K member and get the wheel rate right on the 73-76 K.




Fair enough.

As to the 73-76 A bodies, what is the difference you are referring to? Just overall vehicle weight, or something I'm missing? I wasn't aware of any difference other than engine mounting style.




Hotchkis 67-72 A body front sway bar: 1.5" hollow
Hotchkis 73-76 A Body front sway bar: 1.25" hollow (with a lower motion ratio on top)

The root of the issue is the motion ratios for the front sway bar mounts on the LCA's between the 67-72 and 73-76 are different (73-76 is lower), and the 73-76 sway bar goes through the K member (limiting diameter and bends).

When Hotchkis first released the 73-76 A Body sway bars, they were listed as 1.5" hollow. I called and spoke with one of the Hotchkis guys, who confirmed it was a 1.5" bar and gave me the listed wheel rates. When it arrived at my house, it was a 1.25" bar. We're talking a significant difference in wheel rate, like 700 lb vs 385 lb wheel rate. When I called to discuss with Hotchkis, I explained the issue with the motion ratio. I was told it was 'good enough', and that's all that would fit through the k member anyway. I was also told that the R&D had been done on the 67-72 K member only. I asked about bending a one off bar in 1.5" diameter hollow or doing something to get a custom bar for the 73-76 at the same wheel rate as the 67-72 chassis, and the answer was a resounding no. Needless to say, I returned it, and called Hellwig to get a custom bar bent. That's why I praise Dave at Hellwig every chance I get for helping me.

Full disclosure: I had to grind on the k member in a couple places to get my current custom Hellwig front bar to go through. A splined bar would be the perfect 'fix' to get room for a larger front sway bar.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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