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Installed new control arms and other upgrades! #1660460
08/18/14 01:40 AM
08/18/14 01:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 371
Kings Beach, CA
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tahoechallenge Offline OP
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tahoechallenge  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 371
Kings Beach, CA
My car is a 70 Challenger, 340 powered and 5 speed. It had new rubber lower control arm bushings, offset bushing in the uppers. Also, the car has Koni shocks all around, with 1 inch torsion bars, and FirmFeel stage 3 box with fast ratio pitmen and idler arms. It has a Hellwig sway bar in the front and an Addco in the back. It has 245.45r17 tires all around. When I redid the car I welded in sub frame connectors and torque boxes.
The car has around 4k miles on it, in its current form. It had the standard +3 caster, -1 camber, and 1/8 toe alignment. The car cornered ok, but the steering had a lot of slop in it. I would routinely drive with both hands on the wheel. Another problem was tire ware. Despite the negative camber, I was still wearing the outside corners off of the tires.
I decided to go with the Hotchkis upper control arms and replace all of the bushings with poly. I also purchased the sector shaft support kit from FirmFeel. It took all of last weekend to get the parts installed and the alignment set. The Hotchkis control arms a are a real bear to get set correctly. I had to assemble each side 3 or 4 times to get the caster/camber correct. I also had to do some minor cutting and grinding on the frame rails to get the proper clearances. On the sector support, I decided to slice and re weld the bracket to get the bearing alignment with the K frame perfect.
After getting it back together, I took it for some short drives last week. The car handles amazing. The steering is completely predictable. There is still a few degrees of movement in the steering box, but the sector support works great!
Today I put 200 miles on the car. It was a mix of I80 and twisty mountain roads. The passing lanes were a blast on the mountain roads. The rutted out concrete (from winter tire chains) wasn’t nearly as scary as it had been. And the hairpin curves were complete fun. I can’t wait to drive the car again on a less busy day!

Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: tahoechallenge] #1660461
08/19/14 03:11 AM
08/19/14 03:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,641
San Jose,CA
migsBIG Offline
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migsBIG  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,641
San Jose,CA
Sounds like a funnier, glad it is working out for you. Slope in a Ff box? That does not seem very likely, as Dick and his crew always does a superb job on those boxes. I have heard of similar problems like that due to cracked/fatigued k-members. I know several members have had problems with cracked k-members and had the same problems as you were having. Take a look at it and see if maybe you have some damaged on it. Hotchkis control arms are made for ultra inner fine tunning and that is exspected of them. Tubular arms are great, but when you can tune them for better handeling performance, then the extra work and effort is well worth it.

Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: tahoechallenge] #1660462
08/19/14 05:01 AM
08/19/14 05:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
Quote:

It had the standard +3 caster, -1 camber, and 1/8 toe alignment. Another problem was tire ware. Despite the negative camber, I was still wearing the outside corners off of the tires.





Do you have 1/8 toe in or out? Probably 1/8 toe out if the outside of the tire is wearing. I personally like to have as close to zero toe as possible to minimize tire wear, 4° degrees caster and -2.5° degrees camber on my car.

Sweet setup you have there!


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: RylisPro] #1660463
08/19/14 12:26 PM
08/19/14 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
Viol8r Offline
super stock
Viol8r  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
Quote:

Quote:

It had the standard +3 caster, -1 camber, and 1/8 toe alignment. Another problem was tire ware. Despite the negative camber, I was still wearing the outside corners off of the tires.





Do you have 1/8 toe in or out? Probably 1/8 toe out if the outside of the tire is wearing. I personally like to have as close to zero toe as possible to minimize tire wear, 4° degrees caster and -2.5° degrees camber on my car.

Sweet setup you have there!





You are concerned about tire wear (0 toe) and you run 2.5º of camber?! Interesting advice.

Actually a slight bit of tie in (1/16") is good for normal street driving. The tires will naturally want to pull out slightly with normal road load. Toe out is something you want to do for track driving as it can give you better feel for high speed braking/ corner entry. Tire wear is more, but stability is important in that situation.


1968 Pro-Touring Dodge Charger
*2011 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Invitee
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1203phr_1968_dodge_charger/index.html
Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: tahoechallenge] #1660464
08/19/14 12:58 PM
08/19/14 12:58 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
super stock
Dan@Hotchkis  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Glad to hear you are enjoying your new upper control arms.

Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: Viol8r] #1660465
08/19/14 02:22 PM
08/19/14 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
Quote:

You are concerned about tire wear (0 toe) and you run 2.5º of camber?! Interesting advice.



I change lanes and turn often
Haha!


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Installed new control arms and other upgrades! [Re: RylisPro] #1660466
08/20/14 12:42 AM
08/20/14 12:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 371
Kings Beach, CA
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tahoechallenge Offline OP
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tahoechallenge  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 371
Kings Beach, CA
I felt that with the fast ratio arms, and wider lower tires, steering play was exasperated. When I redid the car I welded all of the seams on the K frame and reinforce the steering box mount. In my case, the sector support made a noticeable difference.
Changing from the rubber bushings to the poly/heim joints seem to stiffen things up quite a bit. I expect tire wear to be a lot more even. There are a bunch of speed bumps in my neighborhood. The car feels/sounds so much more solid with the new parts!







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