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Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! #1630939
06/09/14 06:48 AM
06/09/14 06:48 AM
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Canada lethbridge
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Jonathan Offline OP
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I've been planning this swap for a long time now and I feel like a babe in the woods. I read a thread on this forum searching for some helpful build ideas etc but didn't turn out to be all that helpful and it seems not too many have tried to undertake such a task as putting a cummins into an old muscle car,and info is scarce .
I recently purchased a donor truck with a 95 2wd 5.9 and I'm eager to start tearing the dart apart and prepare it for that heavy torquey motor. The hard part...

So the question is... Where do I start?! I have tons of questions particularly about how to properly reinforce the frame etc to withstand that torque. Will I need to remove the body? What tools would I need and so on.

Bottom line-I need any help I can get. Thanks for posting.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Jonathan] #1630940
06/09/14 08:26 AM
06/09/14 08:26 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Welcome aboard! A bodys (your 76 dart) have integral subframes which are welded to the body. So the body cannot be seperated from the 4 corner subframes like it could with a car line that had a body that is bolted to a full length frame. You'd want (2) front to rear subframe connectors (2" by 3" box steel) welded to the subframes to tie them together (RF to RR and LF to LR) to stiffen the chassis & a partial or full cage depending how far you want to go with that obvious non stock mod. On the eng I would measure the length/width/height, what pan is available, mtr mt location/type and fit, what trans fits, room for exhaust for a start. I know nothing about a Cummins so that'd be where I'd start which is to see if it looks like it would fit with a reasonable amount of effort


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: RapidRobert] #1630941
06/09/14 09:31 AM
06/09/14 09:31 AM
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Northern OH
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rapom Offline
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Your car would be VERY nose heavy. Worse than putting a 440 engine in. You would have to install heavier torsion bars to support the weight. If you were planning on racing it you would have no traction out back. And if you did manage to hook it up, the car would sustain major frame damage without a cage tying the car together.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Jonathan] #1630942
06/09/14 09:39 AM
06/09/14 09:39 AM
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chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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Have you considered the cummins 4bt instead? That would fit more easily, although still quite a tight fit.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Jonathan] #1630943
06/09/14 10:01 AM
06/09/14 10:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
Quote:

Will I need to remove the body?




Your car is a unibody, not a body-on-frame. You can't remove the body.

Anything can be made to fit. As stated, you'll have to address the significant weight distribution imbalance and the resulting handling/braking issues that will create, and you'll certainly need a big, heavy-duty rear end to get the power to the ground without destroying the axle in the process.


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

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Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: buildanother] #1630944
06/09/14 10:35 AM
06/09/14 10:35 AM
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zrxkawboy Offline
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Quote:

Have you considered the cummins 4bt instead? That would fit more easily, although still quite a tight fit.




+1. IF I was going to attempt a swap like this, I'd start there.


It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: zrxkawboy] #1630945
06/09/14 12:15 PM
06/09/14 12:15 PM
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Massachussetts
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RCKTMN Offline
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I would also be concerned with tires. With that much weight on the front, you would need to have tires that could handle the stresses of the weight, steering, and braking that this swap would demand. You would likely need tires from a 3/4 or 1-ton pickup truck.
I own a Magnum SRT8, and I had to be concerned with getting a tire that could handle the weight, as well as the speeds I can hit. So, I would definitely look into tire availability for this as part of your initial research. You don't want to spend all the effort to build it and end up with something you can't safely drive.
I do like the idea of diesel cars, and would love to see something like this done.
Best of luck!

Paul


1970 Barracuda Convertible
1970 Newport Convertible
1970 Satellite Convertible
1974 'Cuda shell - '71 conversion
1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass w/455
2003 RAM3500 CTD
2007 Caliber R/T AWD
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Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: RCKTMN] #1630946
06/09/14 12:21 PM
06/09/14 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,188
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Many years ago there was a kit to install a smaller Nissan diesel into A bodies during the oil embargo of the '70's. Might be a better idea, but still not a good idea.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: slantzilla] #1630947
06/09/14 01:08 PM
06/09/14 01:08 PM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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My buddy that ran a junk yard had one of the Darts with a Nissan diesel.Even the fuel gauge said diesel.He scraped the body and I think he saved the motor.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: therocks] #1630948
06/09/14 01:10 PM
06/09/14 01:10 PM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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We had a goofy guy at work that thought he could just pull his 318 from his 1/2 ton truck and install a 318 Detroit.He thought because they were both the same size displacement it would fit.I just laughed.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: therocks] #1630949
06/09/14 01:25 PM
06/09/14 01:25 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Reasons why your idea is a bad one:
1. The 6BT weighs 1100 lb. That's basicallly the weight of two slant sixes.
2. The 6BT is longer and taller than the engine compartment of an A body. Get out the tape measure and see.
3. The Dart is a unibody, that means that the body of the car IS the frame. No, the frame is not "welded to the body". The body is constructed so that various sheet metal pieces when welded together have enough structural rigidity to act as a frame.
4. The 6BT has over 300 lb-ft of torque AT IDLE. And, they are capable of developing 600 lb-ft or more. That means your unibody will become a unipretzel.
5. There isn't a single piece of a Dart that's up to the weight and power that a 6BT possesses. You could perch the Dart on the pickup frame, that's the only way it'll work.

Fortunately for you, Diesel pickup trucks command a premium price and you should be able to recoup your investment in the truck.

R.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: dogdays] #1630950
06/09/14 11:24 PM
06/09/14 11:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Hate to pile on, but Dogdays is absolutely right. Even setting the issue or torque aside, these are very heavy engines. The thin box frame rails are terribly undersized for supporting the weight. Even with gussets and a cage, it comes down to the old saying... A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. In this case, the weakest link would be the frame rails.
The steering linkage would certainly need upgrading too. I can appreciate a guy trying new stuff, but you are trying to put a $100 saddle on a $50 horse.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Kern Dog] #1630951
06/10/14 02:56 AM
06/10/14 02:56 AM
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Eugene, OR
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FuryBoy Offline
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Why not find a short box 2wd 1500 and put the 6bt in that?

Sweet sport truck with tons of power, and a doable project.

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Jonathan] #1630952
06/10/14 01:55 PM
06/10/14 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
The Dart is a poor choice for the reasons listed above.

I'm not sure what your goals or intended purpose might be so I'll offer a couple suggestions.

1) Do a 4BT swap. It weighs about the same as a 440 and will be an easier fit. Expect to take several inches out of the oil pan to fit it under the hood.

2) Find an inexpensive C-body and stuff the Cummins in it. Again, you'll have to take a few inches out of the oil pan but it should fit. The cars from the early to mid 70s have tons of room under the hood, ride nicely, and are dirt cheap.

I really like my Cummins and entertained the thought of a C-body swap not too long ago. That could make for a nice cruising powerhouse.



We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
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Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: FuryBoy] #1630953
06/11/14 01:26 AM
06/11/14 01:26 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Granite Bay CA
......And Pfffft ! the OP vanishes!

Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: Kern Dog] #1630954
06/11/14 07:05 PM
06/11/14 07:05 PM
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Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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feets  Offline
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Quote:

......And Pfffft ! the OP vanishes!





If you had a pile of guys stomp all over your first question you might feel unwelcome too.

I tried to word my reply in a friendly way but can see I could have done a better job of it.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Cummins 6bt -76 Dodge Dart swap help ! [Re: therocks] #1630955
06/12/14 11:29 AM
06/12/14 11:29 AM
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NB, Canada
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moparfan53 Offline
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Quote:

We had a goofy guy at work that thought he could just pull his 318 from his 1/2 ton truck and install a 318 Detroit.He thought because they were both the same size displacement it would fit.I just laughed.Rocky



Just an FYI. The "318 Detroit" is actually 568 CID. The 318 refers to the horsepower rating, not the displacement. It is a common practice in the heavy truck industry to refer to engines by the power rating, such as "425 Cat", "500 Cummins" etc.








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