Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
#1629464
06/06/14 04:47 AM
06/06/14 04:47 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I always suspected it was oozing past the lower counter shaft where it comes through the case, but I sealed it up pretty good with Permatex when I installed the transmission. It doesn't look like it's coming out of the main shaft seal, because that part was relatively dry. It sure looks like it's coming out of the throw out bearing or seeping past the main input collar. front bearing retainer.
The weird thing is the transmission is filled with a nearly clear Redline Manual trans lube. It was the smoothest shifting, quietest running gear lube I found, and I tried a lot of them.
This black oily goo is all over the inside of my scatter shield, oozes out the throw-out fork boot and even though there are traces of it on the clutch itself, it never slipped and doesn't seem to be saturated like one would expect.
Any Ideas?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629466
06/06/14 04:48 AM
06/06/14 04:48 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426
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...on the throw-out bearing.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629467
06/06/14 04:49 AM
06/06/14 04:49 AM
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jbc426
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...but not really as much as one would expect on the clutch itself?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629468
06/06/14 04:50 AM
06/06/14 04:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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...and the input shaft was relatively dry.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629471
06/06/14 09:00 PM
06/06/14 09:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
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up yours
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Gear oil smells different than engine oil.
Which does it smell like?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1629472
06/06/14 09:31 PM
06/06/14 09:31 PM
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jbc426
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It has the gear oil stench. A guy on a-bodies only, mentioned that if you put the weep hole facing downward on the front bearing support/ throwout bearing shaft, they will leak like this. The small hole is supposed to face upward and act as a vent hole. Mine points down. I thought it was to keep any potential oil from a seal leak from going out to the friction discs.  I've got to visit a buddy in the hospital and then come home and pull the scattershield, starter and clutch. Then I have to box up the clutch in a very strong box and ship it to MCLeod for a rebuild on Monday. They were nice enough to let me pay them for the return shipping(its out of warranty) and it saved me a lot of money as they get great deals from UOS compared to individuals. Remember, it never hurts to ask!
Last edited by jbc426; 06/07/14 12:26 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1629474
06/07/14 03:52 AM
06/07/14 03:52 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Quote:
Quote:
The small hole is supposed to face upward and act as a vent hole. Mine points down. I thought it was to keep any potential oil from a seal leak from going out to the friction discs.
I think you found the problem.
I checked the Field Service Manual for any pictures or reference to the installation of the front bearing retainer. There was nothing in there.
I removed the cover and discovered some interesting things. The primary thing was that there is a cast in channel in the front bearing retainer that lines up with an additional un-threaded hole in the transmission case that allows excess gear oil to flow back into the transmission.
It is on the bottom, adjacent to the small hole. It's actually on the passenger side of the small hole. The drain hole in the case is located on the bottom side of the bearing between the two lower retaining bolts.
The location of this channel and its relation to the small hole proves that the small hole is designed and intended to be facing downward to allow any lube that makes it past the seal to be drained before it can get to the clutch friction surfaces. After all, It only makes sense to try and keep lube off the clutch friction surfaces.
See the pictures and make up your own minds. I also sent an email and asked Jamie Passon what he thinks, but it is pretty clear. I also ordered some fresh seals, as my front bearing support, speedometer cable and tailshaft seals all have some seepage.
Even though this transmission is going to be stored for some time, I would like to fix the bad seals. I'll turn it over quarterly or something like that to keep it lubed.
You can see the small hole next to the cast channel if you look carefully.
Last edited by jbc426; 06/07/14 03:53 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629475
06/07/14 03:54 AM
06/07/14 03:54 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Here's the drain hole in the transmission case that lines up with the channel when the small hole is oriented to the bottom of the transmission.
You can see it just above the counter shaft. I just had a bad front bearing retainer seal.
Last edited by jbc426; 06/07/14 04:05 AM.
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1629477
06/07/14 11:26 AM
06/07/14 11:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
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West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Quote:
Looks like you need a band aid and some Neosporin for the left hand. 
LOL, leave it to a carpenter to spot a hand injury....How about the old put a piece of bacon fat under a band-aid over night to extract a splinter?
I never use any of that goopy quick healing stuff, just hit it with some brake cleaner and wrap it with a paper towel and some tape until it tops bleeding, so I can go back to work.
Those Band-Aids and Neosporin just make it take longer to heal, and get in the way. I put chap stick on it a few times a day to keep it from drying out too much.
That will teach me to hold parts in my hands while using a wire heel in a rechargeable dill...maybe. I did have safety glasses on always, as a rule!!!
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: roadhazard]
#1629479
06/07/14 01:30 PM
06/07/14 01:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Good call. I tried to feel any type of fingernail catching lip/ ridge or rough spots, but it feels smooth. I have fresh bearings in the thing too. It was just fully gone through with less than 5000 miles on it.
It has always had way more side play on the input shaft than I thought it should though, even with the new bearings in there.
Regardless, the front of the shaft is held with a modern roller pilot bearing.
What do you think? Dress it with some emery cloth?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Strange oil leak at front of transmission?
[Re: jbc426]
#1629480
06/07/14 09:08 PM
06/07/14 09:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,196
Harrisburg, Pa.
screamindriver
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Quote:
It has the gear oil stench. A guy on a-bodies only, mentioned that if you put the weep hole facing downward on the front bearing support/ throwout bearing shaft, they will leak like this.
And now you know why it pays wait,gather all the info you can and ask someone like Jamie Passion.. Not make a quick decision based on a typed response if you don't know the source...I see it alot on here as well people getting steered in the wrong direction...Glad to see you've figured out the problem...
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If your trans fluid is clear and this is black I would think it would be oil rather than trany fluid. 
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