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Warlock "econo" smog 440 build #1584023
02/25/14 01:33 AM
02/25/14 01:33 AM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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Ok, so.............. I kinda blew up my 400. Well, maybe just broke it real good. I might post that video later. Hears the deal, I have a 440 that I am going to build. I have started collecting parts, but I will not start it until I have the money to do it right. I also have a 78 motorhome 440 with 28,000 miles. It is as clean as a pin. This is my econo build.

My original plan was to get my heads for my big build and use the springs, retainers and lock for the smoger. I don't have the money for the heads yet. I was going to go with Lunati 268 voodoo. Now that my 400 is down, I am looking for advise.

Here is what I have.

Mystery cam: 465 lift (that's all I know) out of the 400.
Edelbrock Performer 440
HV oil pump

Ok, that's about all I have for the smog motor.

Here are the rules: Bolt on only. I will not even pull the heads. I don't have to use what I have, but this is a buget. I do also have. A set of Crane 1.6 rockers and push rods for my other build that could be borrowed.

Looking for advise, what would you do?

8052088-image.jpg (220 downloads)
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584024
02/25/14 02:21 AM
02/25/14 02:21 AM
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Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
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Scratch,, help this boy out..


I am truckless..
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584025
02/25/14 02:24 AM
02/25/14 02:24 AM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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Advance cam 4 degrees. Give it as much initial ignition timing as it will take and as quick an ignition advance curve as it will handle.

Sheldon

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1584026
02/25/14 03:42 AM
02/25/14 03:42 AM
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Back home in PA
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BulletBob Offline
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Quote:

Advance cam 4 degrees. Give it as much initial ignition timing as it will take and as quick an ignition advance curve as it will handle.

Sheldon




I've done that very same thing cheapest ump you can do for sure

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: 340SHORTY] #1584027
02/25/14 11:35 AM
02/25/14 11:35 AM
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Quote:

Scratch,, help this boy out..




on my 78 MH 440 in my 88 truck I just installed the 440/727/3.91sg in it. ran strong but... then the edelbrock RPM intake swap woke it up.

I am going with the whiplash 440 cam from hughes with their drop on matching springs. (spring swap heads on engine)

I have a holley street dominator intake to use with a edelbrock #1905 q-jet(thermobog replacment) and will be adding headers over the center dump manifolds/glasspacks.

on my smogger 78,000 mile MH 440, the RPM intake alone on the 440 was a huge improvement on torque and throttle responce. with the 600cfm edelbrock and the edelbrock q-jet with adaptor.

if the whiplash 440 cam does what the whiplash roller cam did for my JY 318 in my 85 truck... look out! and it will

FYI, if you 440 has a cast crank/bullet nose damper-the 440 can use the 400 weighted TC. 383/400 440 cast crank all use the external balance.

if the 440 has a thin damper it is internal balance so keep that in mind use stuff from the 400.

I have 2 sb roller whiplash cams 1 440 whiplash cam going in. and 2 other mopar buddys just went to the whiplash cams in their trucks... we were all running lunati voodoo cams.. but we fixed it now going whiplash.


Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 02/25/14 11:36 AM.
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584028
02/26/14 02:52 AM
02/26/14 02:52 AM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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I like the Whiplash. I want to save my money for my build, but you have me thinking. This 440 could be in there for a while.

Here is a pick of the 400 I just popped.

8053302-image.jpg (264 downloads)
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584029
02/26/14 03:36 AM
02/26/14 03:36 AM
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Iowa
76dodgeboy Offline
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What headers you running?

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584030
02/26/14 09:33 AM
02/26/14 09:33 AM
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Truckville, the capital of NY
85_Ram_4speed Offline
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Just curious, what did you blow up on the engine? Sometimes as long as the block isn't damaged, its cheaper to quick fix what's in there.

If you swap a cam into the stock 440, please buy some matching springs at least. And don't go crazy on the cam size either.


Outcast Dodge guy.
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584031
02/26/14 11:36 AM
02/26/14 11:36 AM
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Florida
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Quote:

I like the Whiplash. I want to save my money for my build, but you have me thinking. This 440 could be in there for a while.

Here is a pick of the 400 I just popped.




mines been in since 2010 now and a weekend-some what a daily driver when the 85 is down.. the stock cam is not all that bad from a MH..plenty of lowend torque with the RPM intake but it is all done at 5000 rpm about 4600 rpm with stock points bouncing. but some NOS Accell 32oz spring points fix that and now pulls to 5500 and out of steam.

about 1800-2000 rpm would get me 15 mpg with a q-jet/3.23 gears, 3.91 drop it back to a flat 10 mpg.

I would have no problem dropping in a bone stock lopo MH 440 with nothing but a RPM intake and good carb..headers if I had them.( I run 2 center dump truck manifolds now till cam swap with headers)

the 440 truck does well with 3.23 gears on the hwy and city driving but the 3.91sg is a blast to play with.

Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 02/26/14 11:38 AM.
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584032
02/26/14 12:04 PM
02/26/14 12:04 PM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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The headers are at the following link.

http://www.racinginnovationandsupply.com...ers-_p_211.html

I had started with a set of full length truck headeders, but they hung down way to low. These are not the best, but they have a thick flange and are cheap.

As for what broke........ That is still a mistery. It still runs and sounds fine, but is smoking bad out of one side at RPM. I happened to be taking a video when it happened. Turn up the volume and see if you can identify what broke.

http://youtu.be/wgYbcNSqmo0

I aquired this engine and had no info on it. I pulled it down just for inspection. Bearings were in great shape, has a steel 383 crank, block had been bored 30 with little to no ridge and had stock replacement pistons. I measured the cam lobes and came up with about a .465 lift. Other than that everything looked to be in good shape. It was running good, but was not what I was after. I was actually out in the garage debating on putting the engine up for sale 20 minutes before I took it out for this last drive.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584033
02/26/14 01:20 PM
02/26/14 01:20 PM
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Florida
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I wager it broke a piston ring on one side and is oiling the exhaust pipe down on that side.

last one I had smoke on side and still ran good..for a short time anyways..it was detonation eat away the piston to expose the top ring and sarted a melt down in theat cyl.

didnt take but 2 more runs to kill the piston and leave the pin/rod in the hole banging around...staill ran and had oil pressure but made one heck of a noise.

I will be swaping the 440 rpmintake off mine for a hollet street dome to run the q-jet with out the adaptor. PM me if intersted in it.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: venom107] #1584034
02/26/14 04:20 PM
02/26/14 04:20 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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The smogger 440's are very cam sensitive. What is your rear end gear ratio? Also stock torq converter? I ran a lunati voodoo 60303 in my 76 440. It did ok, just not enough compression for that cam with a stock converter.

If you're going to leave the heads as-is, I would ebay a used edelbrock ch4b intake. The stock heads don't flow enough to take advantage of the extra size of the edelbrock rpm intake runners, and the ch4b will have a slight edge in bottom end power.

Recurving your distributor better be on your to-do list. The stock advance curve is all wrong for these engines, especially if you put a cam in it.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1584035
02/26/14 04:57 PM
02/26/14 04:57 PM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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I am thinking ring also. I need to get it apart, just to see. If it was a ring or piston, I want to make sure there was no valve contact. I have no intention of doing anything further with the 400 unless it involved a larger crank, but there should be a world of good parts there.

The truck currently has 8 3/4 3.55SG and is running a 2800 stall. The only converter I have for a cast crank is a factory high stall. Not real sure where that would come in.

I may just go with my mystery cam. It ran and sounded good right up till the "PING". If I decide I want more, I could always put my 1.6 rockers on.

This clip is after the burn out, but before I knew it was smoking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVyTXPVNuXI


I will probably use the performer (non RPM) that I have. That is unless I score a deal on something that I may use on a future build.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584036
02/26/14 07:17 PM
02/26/14 07:17 PM
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Central Valley, CA.
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scratchin...what kind of (in town) MPG do you get out of that smogger 440? just curious...

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: Quicksilver440] #1584037
02/26/14 10:31 PM
02/26/14 10:31 PM
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Florida
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Quote:

scratchin...what kind of (in town) MPG do you get out of that smogger 440? just curious...




with the 3.23 it would do fair around town on short trips.. I guess it about 12.5 last I checked it around town.

the 15mpg came on a 50 mph ride and stayed right at 1800-2000 rpm and no more. I thinking my 2.76 gear should get me another 2+ maybe? (math shows 55-60 mph turning 1800-2000 rpm with 2.76)

the 3.91sg gets a flat ten up hill/down hill/light throttle/heavy throttle and sure is fun around town... 100 mile ride not so much turning 1800-2000 rpm 40 mph though.

3.23 seems just about right for my truck but gives up some bottom end out the hole. I think the 2.76 gear would be great for a long trip on interstate travel, but no balls out the hole.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584038
02/28/14 07:18 AM
02/28/14 07:18 AM
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State of Confusion
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Not to hijack this post, but how do you like those headders, and are there any issues with spark plug fitment, and or boot contact/melting

Wonder how they would fit in a 4x4 with the center dumps, and front axle location.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584039
02/28/14 02:46 PM
02/28/14 02:46 PM
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scratchnfotraction you said: if the whiplash 440 cam does what the whiplash roller cam did for my JY 318 in my 85 truck... look out
Don't want to highjack thread but since you have run the whiplash cam in a sb how was it for street drivability and mileage ? converter ? thinking of getting a small whiplash or thumper for my 360 in my 77 shorty van and adding airgap and headers. Don't care about how it sounds just want something that works with the low comp.
Thanks

8055933-photo1.JPG (171 downloads)
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: hp383] #1584040
02/28/14 04:43 PM
02/28/14 04:43 PM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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Quote:

Not to hijack this post, but how do you like those headders, and are there any issues with spark plug fitment, and or boot contact/melting

Wonder how they would fit in a 4x4 with the center dumps, and front axle location.




So far so good. I would rather have a full lenth header, but these work fine. I am running standard autolights, MSD street wires with 90 degree boots. No burnt boots. There was a unused boss dead center on the drivers side on my block, that had to be ground down or the collector hit it.

Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: Beebuzzn] #1584041
02/28/14 05:23 PM
02/28/14 05:23 PM
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Quote:

scratchnfotraction you said: if the whiplash 440 cam does what the whiplash roller cam did for my JY 318 in my 85 truck... look out
Don't want to highjack thread but since you have run the whiplash cam in a sb how was it for street drivability and mileage ? converter ? thinking of getting a small whiplash or thumper for my 360 in my 77 shorty van and adding airgap and headers. Don't care about how it sounds just want something that works with the low comp.
Thanks




thumper take comp/stall/gears to run on the street with out being a dog under 3500rpm. IMHO.

the whiplash works great with my low stall TC and the 2.76-3.21-3.55 gears I have ran so far with the auto trans. very good street driver and drives like a stock engine until you mash down on it.

the NV4500 5 speed behind it now and with 3.55 it smokes 1,2,3rd gear and then wants to wheel hop in the truck.

I have a JY/used 107,000 mile 91-318/#302 heads/eddy 600/LD4B/headers/2.5 duels gets around 18+ mpg with the auto or 5 speed maybe a little better with 5 speed if you don't mash on it thru the gears.

winds right up to 6000 rpms in my 318 and I am running the comp 901-16 springs with the roller lifter/whiplash roller cam. so far no issues.

I have plans for 2 more SB318s with the roller whiplash, 1-318 with 360 heads 2-318 with magnum heads.

Hughes was not to sure about the roller whiplash in the pre-mag as they have not run that combo.(worry of cranking PSI/cyl pressure) when I asked about the springs.

comps are little less on the seat and higher rate over all/hughes is more seat-less over all.

the whiplash is almost same specs as the lunati voodoo roller cam I was running with the comp 901-16 spring as well.

but the whiplash woke it up a lot more than the smooth idle voodoo cam.

does just what they say it will do for a stock smogger daily driver.

I rolled the dice with the magnum roller whiplash and comp springs...so far the comp springs are doing a fine job...no valve float or valves bounce on the seat.. revs till it skears me enuff to lift.

I very happy with it in my junk and the 440 should be even better.

Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 02/28/14 05:26 PM.
Re: Warlock "econo" smog 440 build [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1584042
05/26/14 10:46 PM
05/26/14 10:46 PM
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Huntsville, AL
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venom107 Offline OP
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Hey guys, thought I would give an update. Turns out I didn't break the 400. I blew the plug(bolt) out of the factory dipstick hole. My best guess, the sound on the video was the tire slinging the bolt into the wheel well. Made a new plug, sealed it up and it is running great. The motorhome 440 is now just getting cleaned up, small rv cam I have laying around, and up for sale. I am going for my 440 build. I will be posting some details in a new post and looking for recommendations.







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