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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: moparts]
#158472
01/08/09 12:18 PM
01/08/09 12:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,067
Orlando Florida
blown572dart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,067
Orlando Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Jim. Dont know why your other thread got whacked
Jim's WIW chassis thread got moved to WIW Area, IT did not get "wacked" as so many say 
And after it got moved Jim deleted his own posts 
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post4925856
I did delete it because being a race car I thought this was the place to ask 
I will reword it so as to go by the rules.I was only refering to the stuff that was removed from this thread yesterday.
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: blown572dart]
#158473
01/08/09 01:21 PM
01/08/09 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684
St. Charles, MO.
Slingshot383
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684
St. Charles, MO.
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Maybe this doesn't work with EFI, but wouldn't a set of injectors at the hat fix tip in issues? They could be smaller units and just provide quick response to the butterflies moving and to provide a little blower cooling.
1994 Undercover Chassis 125" altered
stack injected big block, soon blown and injected
Member of The Torque and Recoil Club
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Slingshot383]
#158474
01/08/09 01:35 PM
01/08/09 01:35 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i think you guys worry too much. an engine combo like that only needs to idle, increase to stage rpm, than WOT. tip in is more of an issue with your typical street driven hot rod.
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Efidart]
#158477
01/08/09 11:12 PM
01/08/09 11:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 345
Ontario, Canada
Hyper Henry
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 345
Ontario, Canada
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Man I can't believe I missed this post from the beginning  Feel real bad for you Jimmy, hope you can recover and come back bigger, better, faster Love your car Good luck  Derrick
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Efidart]
#158479
01/08/09 11:52 PM
01/08/09 11:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
BDS871Cuda
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
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Quote:
Quote:
i think you guys worry too much. an engine combo like that only needs to idle, increase to stage rpm, than WOT. tip in is more of an issue with your typical street driven hot rod.
Oh I thought he said it was a "Street car"..
In that case it doesn't matter at all if you never have to tip into the throttle to take off from a street light. Just set the idle to 15-2000RPM and you can idle around on the street I guess?
For those who don't know what i'm talking about, with 4 large blades in the scoop each 1% tps is equal to... at least 15-20% throttle with a normal 90mm throttle body. So its hard to just give it light throttle since you don't have the resolution with your foot.
OEM's have cured this problem by making the resolution of the 1st half of the petal move the blade only 1/4 instead of half, then you can press on the throttle light and barely open the blades.
Hey EFI Dart,
Can't you just use 1 blade for on the street?
Kind of like the fuel cars when they do a
burnout.
Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: BDS871Cuda]
#158480
01/09/09 01:03 AM
01/09/09 01:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
Efidart
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
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Yes you could, that would make it have a lot better street manners just having 1 plate opening. The tuning wouldn't change much either since he running speed density, it would just run on a different part of the map when hes on the street.
I used to run 3 mustang 4.6L TB's on a BDS 8-71 with 8 injectors above the blower. It was still a little touchy on the throttle when you were taking off from a light but wasn't terrible. Those are 50 or 60mm TB's and were oem so it took more petal to open them initially.
My turbo car has 1 90MM throttle body, it is very nice to drive on the street. You have to actually press the throttle a tad before it takes off.
TT Predator headed 572 7 Second Street Car.
Fastest Mopar Drag Week 2015
Fastest Mopar & Dodge Drag Week 2017
Pro Street Power Adder Champion Drag Week 2017
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Efidart]
#158481
01/09/09 08:10 AM
01/09/09 08:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,091
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,091
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Quote:
Oh I thought he said it was a "Street car"..
In that case it doesn't matter at all if you never have to tip into the throttle to take off from a street light. Just set the idle to 15-2000RPM and you can idle around on the street I guess?
For those who don't know what i'm talking about, with 4 large blades in the scoop each 1% tps is equal to... at least 15-20% throttle with a normal 90mm throttle body. So its hard to just give it light throttle since you don't have the resolution with your foot.
OEM's have cured this problem by making the resolution of the 1st half of the petal move the blade only 1/4 instead of half, then you can press on the throttle light and barely open the blades.
Thank you efiDart for going through the trouble twice sharing valuable information. It's unfortunate your good advise/insight is falling on deaf ears. But for the benefit of few, once again thanks.
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Efidart]
#158482
01/10/09 09:46 AM
01/10/09 09:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 912
London, England
mopar_mark
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 912
London, England
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Quote:
For those who don't know what i'm talking about, with 4 large blades in the scoop each 1% tps is equal to... at least 15-20% throttle with a normal 90mm throttle body. So its hard to just give it light throttle since you don't have the resolution with your foot.
OEM's have cured this problem by making the resolution of the 1st half of the petal move the blade only 1/4 instead of half, then you can press on the throttle light and barely open the blades.
EFI - I could of done with your expertise when I was struggling with my hat.OK my Blown Hemi is running on pump gas as opposed to Alcohol, but I encountered similar problems.
a) unstable idle issues
b) Throttle was virtually all or nothing
I ended up sealing up 2 of the 4 throttle blades.
To help with the throttle sensitivity, I also made up various throttle & TPS mounting arms brackets in different ratios.
Its still not perfect, but at least drivable on the street.
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: mopar_mark]
#158483
01/10/09 11:07 AM
01/10/09 11:07 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,414
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,414
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
For those who don't know what i'm talking about, with 4 large blades in the scoop each 1% tps is equal to... at least 15-20% throttle with a normal 90mm throttle body. So its hard to just give it light throttle since you don't have the resolution with your foot.
OEM's have cured this problem by making the resolution of the 1st half of the petal move the blade only 1/4 instead of half, then you can press on the throttle light and barely open the blades.
EFI - I could of done with your expertise when I was struggling with my hat.OK my Blown Hemi is running on pump gas as opposed to Alcohol, but I encountered similar problems.
a) unstable idle issues
b) Throttle was virtually all or nothing
I ended up sealing up 2 of the 4 throttle blades.
To help with the throttle sensitivity, I also made up various throttle & TPS mounting arms brackets in different ratios.
Its still not perfect, but at least drivable on the street.
I have been running a 2100 cfm bug catcher on a 431-484 cube +700hp car for a while now, and the round about solutions to how quick it lets in air is funny. Yes, they let in a lot of air at just the crack of the throttle, and yes, the mech arm on the tps and throttle blades has a short rotation compared to a carb, but some of the suggestions on here are really out there. If you change the ratio, you will goof up the computers response to what the engine will want.
I have had this set-up since '98, and in 10 years I have learned a thing or two. The thing I have learned, is you get the tune right for what you are doing. Its not easy on a nasty motor. The more radical the cam and injection set-up, the more difficult the tune is to say the least.
When in 'Full Tune' mode, the injector and efi give the engine everything it needs to launch the car. It pretty much functions as an on off switch. Tough to drive on the street even with wheelie bars and air shift as I tried to live with it for a while, but too difficult to drive in traffic.
What I found was, its less responsive with less fuel and timing, so next was a 'Drivable Tune' where the injector was opening, but I limited the fuel, and timing. With this set-up, the car drives like a normal high hp street car. You actually have to get the blades open some what to really get the car to load the suspension and tires. Its docile as anything until you pass about 15% on the throttle, but after that look out.
There are two requirements of a car like this, drivability and racing. The efi can cover it all, but you will need time to tune it. Problem is, instead of 700-800hp, yours is way over double that, and it reacts to very little input, but thats what you built, now it just needs the right utne-up.
Jim, Keep up with it, and don't let it bring you down, you will get it if you keep plugging away at it. The tuning is the toughest part. You will get it, just give you and it time, and learn the software. You already have the seat of the pants feel for racing, learn the software, and apply what you have learned about racing, and you will get it all dialed in.
Race tune: (70hp more than street tune, and was way more aggressive)
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357...emiMov00451.flv
Street Tune: (outside and car temp was 32*f, no warm up, car started on first try for indoor March car show)
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357...rldWheels-1.flv
Last edited by Dragula; 01/10/09 11:14 AM.
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: Dragula]
#158484
01/10/09 03:15 PM
01/10/09 03:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
Efidart
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
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Sealing up throttle blades works good making a hat more driveable. BDS has done this on their EFI setups to make it easier to drive. I have had to deal with throttle bodies that are extremely oversized for the application.
With some hats it is real difficult to make them transition off idle, since you have to run such a strong spring to keep the blades from pulling open from engine vacuum.
As for changing the ratio for how much the blades open, how will that goof up the ECU response??
With speed density the only thing a TPS does is trigger acceleration enrichments which are adjustable, and you would never run a boosted car on alpha-N. On some systems it also operates the IAC throttle follower, but I find an IAC on a max effort engine it is not needed most of the time.
I have tuned many "Max" effort street cars on the chassis dyno and street, when racing you run on a completely different part of the map then when you are cruising around.
I leave my car on a kill tune all the time, it isn't different from an economy tune. My cruise is set at a nice 14.7-14.9AFR dependant on load and on boost transitions from 12.5 to 11.5~ AFR.
If your tuner is good he should be able to make it idle and cruise around nice, but when you put your foot into it watch out! EFI can cover it all and should.
Dragula: Your right the bandaid for this situation is to make just off idle dog the engine down so it won't rpm quickly. Then it will take more throttle to get it to accelerate so the problem having too much throttle blade area isn't as bad.
Why don't you leave the high end with max HP and the doggy off idle? At the track you are either at idle or WOT on a transbrake.
TT Predator headed 572 7 Second Street Car.
Fastest Mopar Drag Week 2015
Fastest Mopar & Dodge Drag Week 2017
Pro Street Power Adder Champion Drag Week 2017
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: blown572dart]
#158486
01/24/09 07:23 PM
01/24/09 07:23 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,087
Northeast, Arkansas
Dodgeman67
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,087
Northeast, Arkansas
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Dang Jimmy I haven't been on in a while and when I do I get to checking to see if you have made any passes and see this, man I know you have to be sick. I know I'm sick just looking at it. That was a beautifully built machine for that to happen to. I know it will be bigger and better, just sorry you didn't get to enjoy it more before this happened. Good luck on the rebuild. Also if you plan on throwing those ole burnt valve covers away, my son and I have a little hemi project that could really use those.  Sorry Jimmy I just had to say it. Best of luck, Jeff
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Re: The Dart burnt up today
[Re: A70Runner]
#158490
12/18/10 07:34 PM
12/18/10 07:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,327
south central,Pa
mopar_to_ya
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,327
south central,Pa
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Don't scare us like that, man!!!  Just wanted to tell you Jim, that I have some friends that live in Florida that were at the track spectating the first day you had it out, and they took a ton of pics of your car. And I saw them all over facebook,lol. You are their hero!
It's a bigblock with a torque flight!!!
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