crank shaft help - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Street Rodders crank shaft help

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

crank shaft help #1576661 02/10/14 12:04 PM 02/10/14 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1 Erskine Mn USA 1961 UFO OP member
1961 UFO OP member Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1 Erskine Mn USA	I have a 1961 Newport with a push button auto and a 361 engine I read on the forum that there is an adapter to convert a newer big block so I can use my push button trans does anybody know of a kit or adapter to use thank you in advance for your help my trans is brand new 8034069-117.JPG (136 downloads)

Re: crank shaft help [Re: 1961 UFO] #1576662 02/10/14 05:26 PM 02/10/14 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	The pre-'62 BB has a crank flange that's longer, I know of no adapter to mate the early trans to the later motor. You'd have to replace the later crankshaft with an early extended flange one. As an alternative you could install a later BB to a '62-'65 cable-shifted 727 Torqueflite, the '62-'64 PB cable will mate to your existing PB shifter. Problem is, there is no provision for the Park mechanism in the later trans. There is a '62 (one year only) BB 727 trans with a parking brake mounted on the tail like your '61, this is the easiest way to go but these transmissions are rare. 8034404-1962727_03.jpg (100 downloads)

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576663 02/10/14 10:30 PM 02/10/14 10:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado S savoy64 top fuel
savoy64 top fuel S Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado	i used the adapter to mate an early hemi to a late 727----check the hot heads catalog to see a picture of what they look like---the hemi one costs more than $400--i would guess one for a big block will cost way more because few people have done it...

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576664 02/11/14 03:14 PM 02/11/14 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Sounds to me that you need: 1: Any 440 2. A long-tail 413 crankshaft to install in the 440. Those long-tail 413 crankshafts are nearly worthless, as a matter of fact this is the first application of one that I have heard of! Otherwise, an early 413 would give you a nice boost in cubic inches. To get even simpler, you could find a 400 block and build it using the 361 crank you already have. Helpful hint: All B blocks (350,361, 383, 400) are dimensionally similar, so crankshafts will swap between any of them. All RB blocks (RB383, 413, 426, 440) are dimensionally similar and crankshafts will swap between any of them. R. Last edited by dogdays; 02/11/14 03:18 PM.

Re: crank shaft help [Re: dogdays] #1576665 02/12/14 02:20 AM 02/12/14 02:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado S savoy64 top fuel
savoy64 top fuel S Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado	except the early 413 cranks are all forged...

Re: crank shaft help [Re: 1961 UFO] #1576666 02/12/14 05:21 AM 02/12/14 05:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,881 Pittsburgh,PA RTSrunner top fuel
RTSrunner top fuel Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,881 Pittsburgh,PA	With the crankshaft being longer on the early BB wouldn't a simple spacer equal to the difference of the later crank fill the void? This would put the flexplate in it's original (in this case 361) position. RT

Re: crank shaft help [Re: RTSrunner] #1576667 02/12/14 08:15 AM 02/12/14 08:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,511 AZ Mike P pro stock
Mike P pro stock Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,511 AZ	"....With the crankshaft being longer on the early BB wouldn't a simple spacer equal to the difference of the later crank fill the void? This would put the flexplate in it's original (in this case 361) position....." Just the opposite as wants to use a later Big Block.....the newer motor will have a shorter crank flange and would pull the convertor too far out of the pump. The options are pretty straight forward (though not what he probably wants to hear. A crank change in the later engine to the early long crank; early 413, and 383 RB for a 440 or 350 or 361 crank for a R engine. The other option is a trans swap John outlined or a later linkage shifted transmission adapted to the push button shifter (I think the 300 club used to offer an adapter for this). Of course then you would need to do something aobut the emergency brake. 1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold 1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold 1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Mike P] #1576668 02/12/14 11:08 AM 02/12/14 11:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: "....With the crankshaft being longer on the early BB wouldn't a simple spacer equal to the difference of the later crank fill the void? This would put the flexplate in it's original (in this case 361) position....." Just the opposite as wants to use a later Big Block.....the newer motor will have a shorter crank flange and would pull the convertor too far out of the pump. You need to re-visualize this. early BB has a longer crank than a later one. A spacer for the later crank would fix that. Nothing special about it, though I dunno if anyone makes them, but building one should be easy for a machine shop or someone with the machine tools. Not sure if the early cranks use nuts and bolts to attach the flexplate or the crank is threaded. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Supercuda] #1576669 02/12/14 01:07 PM 02/12/14 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,511 AZ Mike P pro stock
Mike P pro stock Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,511 AZ	"...You need to re-visualize this......" Yup you're right I misunderstood where the spacer would go. 1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold 1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold 1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Supercuda] #1576670 02/12/14 06:09 PM 02/12/14 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: You need to re-visualize this. early BB has a longer crank than a later one. A spacer for the later crank would fix that. Nothing special about it, though I dunno if anyone makes them, but building one should be easy for a machine shop or someone with the machine tools. Not sure if the early cranks use nuts and bolts That's the rub, the early converter has 8 studs with nuts on the front side of the crank flange. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576671 02/13/14 01:35 AM 02/13/14 01:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: Quote: You need to re-visualize this. early BB has a longer crank than a later one. A spacer for the later crank would fix that. Nothing special about it, though I dunno if anyone makes them, but building one should be easy for a machine shop or someone with the machine tools. Not sure if the early cranks use nuts and bolts That's the rub, the early converter has 8 studs with nuts on the front side of the crank flange. Wonder if there is a 6 bolt flexplate that will bolt to the early TC and allow this swap with a spacer? Dunno. Or run a hemi 8 bolt crank? Getting expensive now. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Supercuda] #1576672 02/13/14 03:42 PM 02/13/14 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	The configuration of the crank flange is all different. Bottom line, this isn't doable without changing to the early crank. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576673 02/13/14 08:59 PM 02/13/14 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,561 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,561 Downtown Roebuck Ont	The 62 trans is the solution to putting a later engine in a 61. Not easy to find and usually $$$ when you do. A thought John. Could you take the output shaft and tail housing from the 61 and put it in a later PB trans or were they still cast iron in 61? Kevin

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Twostick] #1576674 02/14/14 03:59 PM 02/14/14 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Go back and read my previous post. The answers are in there. And to whoever thinks a cast crank discussion is even relevant to this topic, better start studying. Even a 1978 400 cast crank will drop right into the main bearings of his '61 361, but IT DOESN't MATTER. Any cast crankshaft will have the short tail that doesn't help him mate to his early transmission. R.

Re: crank shaft help [Re: Twostick] #1576675 02/14/14 04:33 PM 02/14/14 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: A thought John. Could you take the output shaft and tail housing from the 61 and put it in a later PB trans or were they still cast iron in 61? Yeah, the '61 is the iron TF...nothing interchanges with the 727. (except the governor) The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576676 02/15/14 06:15 PM 02/15/14 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,386 north of coder moparx "Butt Crack Bob"
moparx "Butt Crack Bob" Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,386 north of coder	Quote: Quote: You need to re-visualize this. early BB has a longer crank than a later one. A spacer for the later crank would fix that. Nothing special about it, though I dunno if anyone makes them, but building one should be easy for a machine shop or someone with the machine tools. Not sure if the early cranks use nuts and bolts That's the rub, the early converter has 8 studs with nuts on the front side of the crank flange. as I understand it, the crank flange pattern is the same as the 8 bolt later hemi. the hole size is 7/16", which is close to the tap drill size required for a 1/2-20 thread which is 29/64" [.453]. so a quick ream and tap would make the early crank flange useable for a modern flexplate. am I thinking right ?

Re: crank shaft help [Re: moparx] #1576677 02/15/14 09:06 PM 02/15/14 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	You don't understand, the early converter has eight studs, about 3/4" long, welded to the face of the converter; (IOW, no flexplate) the bolt circle of the eight studs is the same as the bolt circle on the crank flange....to make the early converter work on a late crank flange you'd need the converter studs to be 2" long to go through the needed spacer. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: crank shaft help [Re: John_Kunkel] #1576678 02/16/14 12:54 AM 02/16/14 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA poorboy I Live Here
poorboy I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA	Quote: You don't understand, the early converter has eight studs, about 3/4" long, welded to the face of the converter; (IOW, no flexplate) the bolt circle of the eight studs is the same as the bolt circle on the crank flange....to make the early converter work on a late crank flange you'd need the converter studs to be 2" long to go through the needed spacer. And then you would need to figure out a way to install the nuts on onto the studs that are attached to the converter, between the crank flange and the block on the late model motor. Gene

Re: crank shaft help [Re: poorboy] #1576679 02/16/14 11:28 AM 02/16/14 11:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,386 north of coder moparx "Butt Crack Bob"
moparx "Butt Crack Bob" Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,386 north of coder	Quote: Quote: You don't understand, the early converter has eight studs, about 3/4" long, welded to the face of the converter; (IOW, no flexplate) the bolt circle of the eight studs is the same as the bolt circle on the crank flange....to make the early converter work on a late crank flange you'd need the converter studs to be 2" long to go through the needed spacer. And then you would need to figure out a way to install the nuts on onto the studs that are attached to the converter, between the crank flange and the block on the late model motor. Gene you guys are right. I was thinking of the swap to a new style trans [62 & up] to the old crank flange, not reusing the old trans. sorry.

Re: crank shaft help [Re: poorboy] #1576680 02/16/14 08:13 PM 02/16/14 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,783 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: And then you would need to figure out a way to install the nuts on onto the studs that are attached to the converter, between the crank flange and the block on the late model motor. Gene 440 is 6-bolt, all early are 8-stud. Even if the bolt count were the same you'd need a deep nut similar to a mag wheel lug nut and there just ain't enough room lengthwise or sideways. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1