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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: 68Bullit]
#157493
11/27/08 12:36 AM
11/27/08 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021
Oregon
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Give the guys at www.firmfeel.com a call and get a list of upgrades from them. You should be able to upgrade torsion bars, shocks, springs, and anti-sway bar until you have it just like you want. Lighter wheels with high performance tires will also make a big difference.
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: 68Bullit]
#157494
11/27/08 02:25 AM
11/27/08 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Car is a mostly driver and I want something better than stock for the nice curvy roads where I live (and the hopes for a future road track day) and would like suggestions.
Am I thinking correctly to start with maybe some Koni stock appearing replacements, bigger front swaybar, installation of a rear bar, and a set of subframe connectors???? Would these changes be a noticeable upgrade over stock, and worth it???
Yes, noticeable. And suitable for a track day.
Quote:
I've already installed polygraphite bushings/accessories to the front end, and MP front disc conversion. That's the only upgrades to the front.
Does that conversion take Mopar facotory rotors? Nice to be able to get 11.75" dia disks on there. IMHO the factory disks swap is just as capable as these aftermarket kits with cast iron calipers. And if you use the 73-76 A-body or F/M/J spindle the upgrade to one inch larger disc is not very expensive.
Quote:
Please tell me how you'd better the OVERALL suspension for a big driver car including brand of aftermarket pieces with a Goal under $1200.00.....Thanks
OK, $1200 budget... Bang for you buck and trying to not to duplicate labor with further improvements.
- $335 1.18" T-bar from www.firmfeel.com
- stock rear springs
- $100 Addco 1 1/8" front if you have a factory bar allready
- ~$50 Energy sway bar to K-member adapters
- $240 Helwig adjustable 3/4" rear sway bar pn 6907
- ~$50 Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- N/C shaved the rearward poly strut rod bushing like this: http://users.erols.com/mathewg/bushings.html
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- $500 Koni shocks or QA1 single or double adjustable
Whew! That's $1275. How'd I do??
Next improvements
- reinforce welded 70-72 K-member with $100 70-72 sway bar to run up to 5.5 backspace front rims (might substitute this for the Koni shocks just because you have to take so much off to get to it)
- adj. prop. valve,
- frame connectors
- Firm Feel Stage III power steering box
- 13" disc AndyF brake kit
- Doc Diff rear brake kit with parking brakes
My current setup in my 340 68 Barracuda listed below. Future plans (if money falls out of the sky) for some bigger T-bars, front and rear 275/40/17 tires on 17x9's, 13" disks with good calipers, brake ducts.
- .99 T-bar
- stock 340 original 40 year old rear springs
- Addco 1 1/8" front 3/4" rear sway bars
- 245/50/15 BFG Comp TA, 15x8 rallyes, 4.5 bksp
- 73-76 k-member welded reinforced
- Mopar reman power steering box
- La Carra steering wheel
- Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- poly: LCA, strut, sway bar, leaf bushings
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- 11.75 front disk, 10" stock rear drums
Mopar Police semi metallic disk pads, braided flex lines, adj. prop. valve, MP alum master
- QA1 single adjustble front shocks
- Koni SPA1 rear shocks
Last edited by autoxcuda; 11/27/08 03:53 AM.
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: StandOnIt]
#157496
11/27/08 04:00 AM
11/27/08 04:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Start with the subframe connecters. Talk about stiffen it up... Then start playing with your shocks and good body mounts, sway bars, etc...  
Then you'd have to dump the shock upgrade to stay within the budget.
I haven't had subframe connectors in the last 13 years with my setup. I'm sure they would help and I would like to get some. IMHO, you will feel bigger effects in the seat of your pants from the other stuff.
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: autoxcuda]
#157497
11/27/08 06:54 AM
11/27/08 06:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
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I am unable to respond to share valuable information at this time...still waiting for our handling/suspension section...   Actually I am waiting for an adult explanation from an adult as to why we can't have a trial period for a handling/suspension section. Maybe my adult inquiry will get another child like 
Last edited by Tom_Quad; 11/27/08 09:30 AM.
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: autoxcuda]
#157498
11/27/08 10:39 AM
11/27/08 10:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Car is a mostly driver and I want something better than stock for the nice curvy roads where I live (and the hopes for a future road track day) and would like suggestions.
Am I thinking correctly to start with maybe some Koni stock appearing replacements, bigger front swaybar, installation of a rear bar, and a set of subframe connectors???? Would these changes be a noticeable upgrade over stock, and worth it???
Yes, noticeable. And suitable for a track day.
Quote:
I've already installed polygraphite bushings/accessories to the front end, and MP front disc conversion. That's the only upgrades to the front.
Does that conversion take Mopar facotory rotors? Nice to be able to get 11.75" dia disks on there. IMHO the factory disks swap is just as capable as these aftermarket kits with cast iron calipers. And if you use the 73-76 A-body or F/M/J spindle the upgrade to one inch larger disc is not very expensive.
Quote:
Please tell me how you'd better the OVERALL suspension for a big driver car including brand of aftermarket pieces with a Goal under $1200.00.....Thanks
OK, $1200 budget... Bang for you buck and trying to not to duplicate labor with further improvements.
- $335 1.18" T-bar from www.firmfeel.com
- stock rear springs
- $100 Addco 1 1/8" front if you have a factory bar allready
- ~$50 Energy sway bar to K-member adapters
- $240 Helwig adjustable 3/4" rear sway bar pn 6907
- ~$50 Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- N/C shaved the rearward poly strut rod bushing like this: http://users.erols.com/mathewg/bushings.html
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- $500 Koni shocks or QA1 single or double adjustable
Whew! That's $1275. How'd I do??
Next improvements
- reinforce welded 70-72 K-member with $100 70-72 sway bar to run up to 5.5 backspace front rims (might substitute this for the Koni shocks just because you have to take so much off to get to it)
- adj. prop. valve,
- frame connectors
- Firm Feel Stage III power steering box
- 13" disc AndyF brake kit
- Doc Diff rear brake kit with parking brakes
My current setup in my 340 68 Barracuda listed below. Future plans (if money falls out of the sky) for some bigger T-bars, front and rear 275/40/17 tires on 17x9's, 13" disks with good calipers, brake ducts.
- .99 T-bar
- stock 340 original 40 year old rear springs
- Addco 1 1/8" front 3/4" rear sway bars
- 245/50/15 BFG Comp TA, 15x8 rallyes, 4.5 bksp
- 73-76 k-member welded reinforced
- Mopar reman power steering box
- La Carra steering wheel
- Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- poly: LCA, strut, sway bar, leaf bushings
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- 11.75 front disk, 10" stock rear drums
Mopar Police semi metallic disk pads, braided flex lines, adj. prop. valve, MP alum master
- QA1 single adjustble front shocks
- Koni SPA1 rear shocks
With all due respect Steve, I can add that the Konis are nowhere near enough shock for the afformentioned t bar. I also beg to differ that the 11.75 brakes with single piston cast iron calipers rival more modern multipiston units with larger rotors. In the real world, it just isn't happening. Since he mentioned track capable, we need to put more modern options on the table...
BTW, how did you arrive at that torsion bar selection? 
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: 68Bullit]
#157499
11/27/08 10:58 AM
11/27/08 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 531
Virginia
JimG
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 531
Virginia
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I can tell you what I've done and how it worked out.
I did most of this 11 years ago, so some details are fuzzy.
1" MP torsion bars
Stiffer bushings in the upper & lower control arms (the brand name escapes me now, but for years they advertised on the back cover of all the Mopar magazines).
Addco front anti swaybar with polyurethane bushings
Koni shocks all around
MP replacement rear springs. I think they're called XHD - 7 leaves on one side, 6 on the other. My car originally came with these springs, but they had sagged, so these were stock replacements for me.
Addco rear bar - 3/4" I think
Not that it affected handling, but I did the disc brake swap and used 11.75 brakes. I have a Firm Feel stage 2 power steering box. I have a very heavy wheel/tire combo, which hurts me I know.
All that stuff helped a lot, but if I had it to do over I'd go with larger front t-bars and stiffer rear springs. In Mopar Action, Mr. Ehrenberg recommended de-arched super stock springs (back when I did this work), but never having had a set of springs de-arched, I could envision multiple intalls, uninstalls, and multiple pricey trips to the spring de-arching shop (ha!)to get the arch set right. That scared me off, so I took the easy way out, and I regret it. Again, that was 11 years ago and there are probably better options for rear springs that did not exist then.
The Koni shocks, while pricey, are nice. I wish I'd bought a Firm Feel stage 3 steering box instead of the stage 2.
Jim
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: 68Bullit]
#157500
11/27/08 01:12 PM
11/27/08 01:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
Lefty
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
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Quote:
Am I thinking correctly to start with maybe some Koni stock appearing replacements, bigger front swaybar, installation of a rear bar, and a set of subframe connectors???? Would these changes be a noticeable upgrade over stock, and worth it???
Yes, it will feel like a different car. I would go for a matched set on the sway bars.
Also, if the Konis have to be removed to adjust, go with the QA1s as they are externally adjustible. 
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: 68Bullit]
#157501
11/27/08 01:32 PM
11/27/08 01:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
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Eric, If you are likely to upgrade the car over time, kinda one project at a time rather than a complete g-machine build all at once then I would do the subframes first--if you drive the car hard sooner or later you will want them and they set the foundation for a stiff/firm platform on which your future mods can operate at their optimum. Then the T-bars--they are a really inexpensive upgrade that again create the basis from which other improvements can be optimized. Brakes or Sway bars next. Brakes can be expensive, but everything else is comprimized if your brakes are not performance oriented. Konis??? Man, they are nice, but they take up too much green ($) in a budget build. Wheels/Tires, your way over budget now.... but we all know how important low rotational weight and performance tires can be. Maybe by this time your budget has changed
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Re: Want to upgrade suspension. Need advice
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#157502
11/27/08 02:32 PM
11/27/08 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Car is a mostly driver and I want something better than stock for the nice curvy roads where I live (and the hopes for a future road track day) and would like suggestions.
Am I thinking correctly to start with maybe some Koni stock appearing replacements, bigger front swaybar, installation of a rear bar, and a set of subframe connectors???? Would these changes be a noticeable upgrade over stock, and worth it???
Yes, noticeable. And suitable for a track day.
Quote:
I've already installed polygraphite bushings/accessories to the front end, and MP front disc conversion. That's the only upgrades to the front.
Does that conversion take Mopar facotory rotors? Nice to be able to get 11.75" dia disks on there. IMHO the factory disks swap is just as capable as these aftermarket kits with cast iron calipers. And if you use the 73-76 A-body or F/M/J spindle the upgrade to one inch larger disc is not very expensive.
Quote:
Please tell me how you'd better the OVERALL suspension for a big driver car including brand of aftermarket pieces with a Goal under $1200.00.....Thanks
OK, $1200 budget... Bang for you buck and trying to not to duplicate labor with further improvements.
- $335 1.18" T-bar from www.firmfeel.com
- stock rear springs
- $100 Addco 1 1/8" front if you have a factory bar allready
- ~$50 Energy sway bar to K-member adapters
- $240 Helwig adjustable 3/4" rear sway bar pn 6907
- ~$50 Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- N/C shaved the rearward poly strut rod bushing like this: http://users.erols.com/mathewg/bushings.html
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- $500 Koni shocks or QA1 single or double adjustable
Whew! That's $1275. How'd I do??
Next improvements
- reinforce welded 70-72 K-member with $100 70-72 sway bar to run up to 5.5 backspace front rims (might substitute this for the Koni shocks just because you have to take so much off to get to it)
- adj. prop. valve,
- frame connectors
- Firm Feel Stage III power steering box
- 13" disc AndyF brake kit
- Doc Diff rear brake kit with parking brakes
My current setup in my 340 68 Barracuda listed below. Future plans (if money falls out of the sky) for some bigger T-bars, front and rear 275/40/17 tires on 17x9's, 13" disks with good calipers, brake ducts.
- .99 T-bar
- stock 340 original 40 year old rear springs
- Addco 1 1/8" front 3/4" rear sway bars
- 245/50/15 BFG Comp TA, 15x8 rallyes, 4.5 bksp
- 73-76 k-member welded reinforced
- Mopar reman power steering box
- La Carra steering wheel
- Moog offset 7103 rubber UCA bushings for caster on stock A-arms
- poly: LCA, strut, sway bar, leaf bushings
- Alignment: 4.4 deg pos caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in
- 11.75 front disk, 10" stock rear drums
Mopar Police semi metallic disk pads, braided flex lines, adj. prop. valve, MP alum master
- QA1 single adjustble front shocks
- Koni SPA1 rear shocks
With all due respect Steve, I can add that the Konis are nowhere near enough shock for the afformentioned t bar. I also beg to differ that the 11.75 brakes with single piston cast iron calipers rival more modern multipiston units with larger rotors. In the real world, it just isn't happening. Since he mentioned track capable, we need to put more modern options on the table...
BTW, how did you arrive at that torsion bar selection?
By more options, means more $$$
I'm just working within stated the $1200 budget. It's easy to blank check this deal. But you've got to make compromises when working with a budget. What do you keep and what do you let go?
Sorry, I was talking about 11.75 factory disk being the same or better than the aftermarket kits that use cast iron GM calipers or early Mustang calipers for a 11" disc converstion kit. Now the MP kit seems like a factory spindle with factory slider calipers. If 68Bullit has those in 10.75" disks, then I would suggest buying some used 11.75" ~$60 slider caliper adapters and some new 11.75" disks from the parts store.
I agree Multipiston brakes would be great and better with much more potential on the track than a 11.75 stock setup. No doubt. But it will put him past the $1200 budget in one shot. The mulitpiston brakes will decrease track pad wear, stiffer track pedal, fade resistance, spread the pad clamping force...
That car is very heavy but he says he want's to drive it on the street. I don't know what he feels is stiff or too stiff. So 1.18 T-bars aren't too stiff. He can balance the car with the adjustable rear sway bar. If he wants more of a track car, go all the way up to 1.24"
I'm going for bang for your buck that you can feel. Sure we can make everything perfect and spend a ton of (someone else's) money at once. I'm going for roll stiffness first, then tire size (like 275's wide up front at least), body re-inforcement, then a big jump in brake upgrade.
Not going to do everything at once. But enough to start having fun and maybe getting out to the track to know what to do next. I think this is what TomQ has basically done too.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 11/27/08 04:33 PM.
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