Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! #1553146
12/26/13 12:09 AM
12/26/13 12:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
I
IndyDave Offline OP
member
IndyDave  Offline OP
member
I

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
Below is the final draft of rules to be presented to the SCCA BoD for a class targeted specifically at Pro-Touring cars. This was brought forth by Raleigh Boreen who's a member of my Region (Indianapolis) after much research and input from people in the Pro-Touring world as well as experience from Indy Region's SMC class. Raleigh and his wife Velma are working as paid consultants to the SCCA working on methods and ways to help regions improve and expand regions tools to put on better Solo (autocross) events. One of the things they were charged with is how to attract more of us to SCCA events.

Pending BoD approval (which is almost certain) the new class called CAM (Classic American Muscle) will be a Regional only class meaning the class won't be included in National Tour events, Solo Match Tour events, and the Solo Nationals. At least initially. There are already things I can't talk about that may happen that could expand class recognition. The class will be in Appendix B of the 2014 SCCA Solo Rule Book.



CAM - Appendix BAPPENDIX B - CLASSIC AMERICAN MUSCLE (CAM)
Rationale: The purpose of CAM is to attract automobile enthusiasts to SCCA who are currently interested in and/or participating in the Goodguys® Autocross events or other similar events for "classic" vehicles (e.g., Street Machine, Muscle Car, Hot Rod, Truck, Street Car, Late Model, etc.) built in North America by manufacturers based in the US (e.g., "The Big Three" – GM, Ford, and Chrysler). These avid enthusiasts would largely be a new and different group of folks to join with us as SCCA® members and participants.
However, many of these types of cars may not have a favorable classification at their local SCCA® Solo® events. By having a simple, single set of rules used across the country, these new autocross enthusiasts would be able to participate in multiple Regional Solo® events with a more consistent experience. Additionally, this gives SCCA and the Solo® Events Board an opportunity to see the viability of this type of participation at all levels of Solo® events. Therefore, Regions are encouraged to offer this program and to encourage Classic American Muscle car enthusiasts to join the fun at your SCCA Solo events!
Eligible Vehicles



1.Vehicle must be considered a "street legal" (lights, wipers, etc.), US-domestic automobile of front-engine/RWD configuration or a "pick-up" truck. Must be licensed and insured.
Vehicle must pass the mandatory safety inspection (tech) and be in compliance with Section 3, Vehicles, of the 2014 SCCA® National Solo® Rules.
Vehicles must weigh 3000 pounds or more.



Body



1.All body panels must be present in the original standard locations and may be modified or replaced. Exc



1.exception: High-Boys (1954 and earlier), Roadsters (1954 and earlier), and Trucks (1940 and earlier) are not required to have fenders or hood sides.
All glass must be present. Side glass components may be replaced by Lexan®.Interior must be finished and have minimum seating for two adults.The fuel tank/cell must be separated from the driver/passenger compartment by a metal panel/bulkhead. The fuel tank/cell shall not vent into the driver/passenger compartment.



Wheels and Tires



1.Any metallic wheels are allowed. Non-metallic wheels must be certified from an appropriate, recognized standards organization (e.g., FIA, SFI, SAE, TUV, etc.).
Only DOT-approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or more are permitted.

draft a
A
ppendix B - CAM2013 SCCA® National Solo® Rules— 281
Body Electrical System



1.Electrical components and wiring are unrestricted.


Brake System



1.Brake system and components are unrestricted.


Suspension and Steering



1.Suspension and steering components are unrestricted. Method of attachment is unrestricted.


Engine and Drive Train



1.Engine, drive train, and associated components (internal and external) are unrestricted.


Classing Options, based on local demand:



1.A single CAM class for vehicles meeting the above requirements.
Two classes (CAM-A and CAM-B) split on a model year (e.g., pre-1973 and 1973-on or pre-1983 and 1983-on).
Two classes based on body style; muscle car and/or hot rod (alternate minimum weights may be considered).
Other methods of subdividing based on local CAM enthusiast requests.


Dave Dusterberg
1979 Aspen R/T (soon to be #19 CAM/T)
2002 Ram 1500 SLT
2005 Magnum R/T
2005 Mustang GT SCCA CAM/C #19
Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: IndyDave] #1553147
12/26/13 02:42 AM
12/26/13 02:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
pro stock
dangina  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
sounds like fun but the bigger dollar builds might blow away any competition because of the low # of restrictions, I like to see maybe class A stock pickup points(bolt in stock suspension) no cage, but can weld braces on the body,
class B unlimited
or
pre-64 class A
64-74 as class B
75+ class C

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: dangina] #1553148
12/26/13 11:56 AM
12/26/13 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
super stock
brads70  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
Quote:

sounds like fun but the bigger dollar builds might blow away any competition because of the low # of restrictions, I like to see maybe class A stock pickup points(bolt in stock suspension) no cage, but can weld braces on the body,
class B unlimited
or
pre-64 class A
64-74 as class B
75+ class C




Great idea's/points! Rules are to keep those with limited funds able to compete with those that have no limits. Or at least limit/close the gap? (Money almost always wins)
I guess as more cars come out they could split the classes but I assume this is just a starting point to get it off the ground.
What is the differences between SM , SP and this new class? Newbie question as I'm just getting into this stuff, I've been into circle track racing for 25 years.

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: brads70] #1553149
12/26/13 12:29 PM
12/26/13 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
C
Consulier Offline
enthusiast
Consulier  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
This is a bit of bs if you ask me... "Vehicles must weigh 3000 pounds or more"

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: dangina] #1553150
12/26/13 12:37 PM
12/26/13 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,608
Indiana
EV2DEMON Offline
The Camaro Kid
EV2DEMON  Offline
The Camaro Kid

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,608
Indiana
Quote:

sounds like fun but the bigger dollar builds might blow away any competition because of the low # of restrictions, I like to see maybe class A stock pickup points(bolt in stock suspension) no cage, but can weld braces on the body,
class B unlimited
or
pre-64 class A
64-74 as class B
75+ class C




If the car has stock suspension pick up points etc.., it probably fits into an already existing class. This was created for cars that are modified beyond what the typical class rules would allow, but are still street cars as opposed to all out race cars.

I agree that the 3000 lbs is strange. They're forcing a bunch of cars to ballast right off the bat.

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: EV2DEMON] #1553151
12/26/13 12:49 PM
12/26/13 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
C
Consulier Offline
enthusiast
Consulier  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
"after much research and input from people in the Pro-Touring world"... and all of them happen to drive over weight GM products.

I suspect there is some underlying fear that the CP cars will just slap lights/wipers back on their cars to show up and destroy the class. I wouldn't be concerned about that since it's regional only, but who knows.

Maybe I'm just giving them too much credit and the "input" came from the group that is just covering their butt.

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: Consulier] #1553152
12/26/13 01:06 PM
12/26/13 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
How many "Pro-Touring" street cars that weigh over 3,000lbs have Lexan windows, and a fuel cell with a steel bulkhead between the cell and driver?

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: dangina] #1553153
12/26/13 01:13 PM
12/26/13 01:13 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
C
Consulier Offline
enthusiast
Consulier  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Quote:

sounds like fun but the bigger dollar builds might blow away any competition because of the low # of restrictions, I like to see maybe class A stock pickup points(bolt in stock suspension) no cage, but can weld braces on the body,
class B unlimited
or
pre-64 class A
64-74 as class B
75+ class C




Don't let the big money cars fool you. A well driven, stock suspension (torsion bars and leafs), decent power and reasonable tire Mopar can wreck havoc on this class.

I think the weight rule sucks, but I like the fact of having a more "run what you brung" class at SCCA events.

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: Consulier] #1553154
12/26/13 02:56 PM
12/26/13 02:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Wish they would just throw the 200 tw thing out the window. Im not exactly fond of giving BFG my money, but it will probably eventually happen.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: Consulier] #1553155
12/26/13 03:38 PM
12/26/13 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
super stock
brads70  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
Quote:

This is a bit of bs if you ask me... "Vehicles must weigh 3000 pounds or more"



Just curious, how do you mean? Heavier or lighter? I'd guess heavier?

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: IndyDave] #1553156
12/26/13 03:50 PM
12/26/13 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
I thought we beat this topic up back in October?

Although, maybe that was over on protouring.com

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: TC@HP2] #1553157
12/26/13 03:53 PM
12/26/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
pro stock
mopardamo  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
I don't think it was beat on moparts. The 200 designation needs to be standardized if there is going to be any type of rule based on the number. The current crop of 200 tires are all over the map.

Damon

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: brads70] #1553158
12/26/13 04:12 PM
12/26/13 04:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
I
IndyDave Offline OP
member
IndyDave  Offline OP
member
I

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Speedway In.
On the 3000# issue: This came about from direct input from competitors running in pro-touring series. Most said if they were writing the rules there would be a minimum weight and 3000# minimum was the number most often cited. To those who worry about "big money car" dominance, a minimum weight helps even the things some. Besides, as Kevin said, a well driven car will compete and beat money regularly. One of the great things about autocross is it's more about fast drivers than it is about fast cars.

On the lack of sub-classes: The way the rules are written, that is up to each Region's discression. The original draft had sub-classes included but the SEB thought it wasn't needed. Their thought (amazingly) was to keep the rules simple and as open as possible. They looked at what the major sanctioners of pro-touring autocross series rules were and didn't want to stray too far from what they were doing.

On 200TW tires: That's the standard minimum TW in most pro-touring series. Also note that even SCCA is moving their street tire classes toward 200TW tires. Unless things change, in 2015 all street tire SCCA Solo classes are going to require 200TW tires. 200TW is becoming the standard. What difference does it make as long as everyone is on the same TW?


Dave Dusterberg
1979 Aspen R/T (soon to be #19 CAM/T)
2002 Ram 1500 SLT
2005 Magnum R/T
2005 Mustang GT SCCA CAM/C #19
Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: brads70] #1553159
12/26/13 04:24 PM
12/26/13 04:24 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
C
Consulier Offline
enthusiast
Consulier  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Quote:

Just curious, how do you mean? Heavier or lighter? I'd guess heavier?



It's not hard to get an A-body under 3,000 lbs. Early cars I think might be hard to get over 3,000 with an aluminum head motor, headers, etc...

Seems this rule will really eliminate anything other than Muscle cars essentially. I can't see an early Ford being more than 3,000. Maybe they are, don't follow them at all.

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: IndyDave] #1553160
12/26/13 04:40 PM
12/26/13 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,719
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,719
Bitopia
At this point in my life, I don't care what the rules are, as long as I can get on the course, and I don't care who wins, as I long as I can have fun. Life is too short, and more money always wins anyway..


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: jcc] #1553161
12/26/13 04:45 PM
12/26/13 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
C
Consulier Offline
enthusiast
Consulier  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Quote:

Life is too short



This is true...

Quote:

and more money always wins anyway..



This is not...

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: Consulier] #1553162
12/26/13 05:00 PM
12/26/13 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,719
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,719
Bitopia
Did I leave out "almost"?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: jcc] #1553163
12/26/13 07:55 PM
12/26/13 07:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
About the weight rule, isn't it good that you can now decide where the needed weight is placed in your sub-3000 lbs car?

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: IndyDave] #1553164
12/26/13 08:36 PM
12/26/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
pro stock
mopardamo  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
Quote:



On 200TW tires: That's the standard minimum TW in most pro-touring series. Also note that even SCCA is moving their street tire classes toward 200TW tires. Unless things change, in 2015 all street tire SCCA Solo classes are going to require 200TW tires. 200TW is becoming the standard. What difference does it make as long as everyone is on the same TW?




Problem is that the 200TW is not a standard in of itself. Meaning that a 200TW tire by one company is not the same rating as one by another. Tire companies get to set up what 200TW means to them. Some companies even use a different scale for different models of tires. This number is only useful for relative readings within one manufacturers line and sometimes tire model specific. The scale one company uses is not the same scale as another. Its a basic problem. Not until an adopted scientific standard that is used by all companies will 200TW mean anything. At this point it is fairly arbitrary other than it means a performance/competition type of tire.

Damon

Re: SCCA is adding a Solo class just for Pro-Touring cars! [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1553165
12/26/13 09:16 PM
12/26/13 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,608
Indiana
EV2DEMON Offline
The Camaro Kid
EV2DEMON  Offline
The Camaro Kid

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,608
Indiana
Quote:

About the weight rule, isn't it good that you can now decide where the needed weight is placed in your sub-3000 lbs car?




Unless you have a 2700 lb car that you now need to throw 300lbs at.

Min weights make sense in stock & production classes. It doesn't in a class where virtually everything else is unrestricted. I'm not necessarily against a minimum weight, just wondering why they made it so heavy?

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1