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stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
#1542332
12/01/13 03:28 PM
12/01/13 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
440gtx6
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
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This has probably been discussed a hundred times but wasn't having much luck with the search feature so guess I need to ask. I'm working on a budget 505 inch 440 wedge build. Was thinking of getting the 440 source stealth heads and now looking at a Torker II single plane intake on Ebay. But I've got a stock 70 six pack setup and wondering if staying with the six pack setup would be as good or better than the Torker single plane? I'm looking for good torque below 4000 rpm so which is best? This would be in a heavy b-body, 70 Satellite with a 727. Probably like to keep the gearing around 3.23 or 3.55. Thanks! 
69 EF8 GTX 440 auto
72 EB5 RR/GTX 440 auto
70 EW1 GTX 440-6 4 spd
70 EF8 Satellite 318 auto (452 coming soon)
70 FK5 Satellite 318 auto
71 FC7 Cuda 340 4 spd
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 72sat]
#1542334
12/01/13 03:45 PM
12/01/13 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
440gtx6
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
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That's what I was hoping to hear, basically that I could expect as good or better torque numbers than the single plane. Got to get the carbs worked though, it's been on the shelf a long time. Any advice on the linkage? 
69 EF8 GTX 440 auto
72 EB5 RR/GTX 440 auto
70 EW1 GTX 440-6 4 spd
70 EF8 Satellite 318 auto (452 coming soon)
70 FK5 Satellite 318 auto
71 FC7 Cuda 340 4 spd
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: AndyF]
#1542338
12/01/13 06:38 PM
12/01/13 06:38 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,404
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,404
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
A single 4bbl on a good intake manifold will make more power than the six pack setup, but the six pack looks cool. Just depend what you want.
X2
First off, the dual plane intake is a big restriction, if you don't open it up, no way to pull more air thru than the intake will allow.
Second, the six pack carbs require recalibrating. Best to send them to Quick Fuel, or someone who will convert them..
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Dragula]
#1542339
12/01/13 06:50 PM
12/01/13 06:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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From the sounds of it, its a street car... put the 6 pac on and dial it in... it will make more low end torque for the street.... plus you have it... I never cared for the 6 pac due to the hassle of setting them up... as for linkage, go with the same style they came with 
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 440gtx6]
#1542340
12/01/13 06:54 PM
12/01/13 06:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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If it was on a 440 i would say six pack but since it is on a 505 you will have to really work to get the six pack to run right and it will just be easier and cheaper with a single carb.
In the 1/8th with my 493
Stock six 97 mph
Victor and 1000 cfm annular 99mph
Weiand x ram mechanical six 101mph
Weiand tunnel ram mechanical 101 mph
Then i went roller with ez heads and ran 110mph with the last setup
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#1542342
12/01/13 08:10 PM
12/01/13 08:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
440gtx6
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
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Since it's a street car torque from off idle til around 5k rpm was my primary concern and as you say I already have the six pack with what I'm guessing are either stock carbs or direct replacements. It's the manifold and carbs on my 70 gtx and been sitting for a long time on it's original six pack engine so I've got to go through them for a rebuild anyway. Since the gtx probably isn't going to get restored for awhile thought I'd just "borrow" them for this hot rod I've been working on.
69 EF8 GTX 440 auto
72 EB5 RR/GTX 440 auto
70 EW1 GTX 440-6 4 spd
70 EF8 Satellite 318 auto (452 coming soon)
70 FK5 Satellite 318 auto
71 FC7 Cuda 340 4 spd
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 383man]
#1542343
12/01/13 08:14 PM
12/01/13 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
440gtx6
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
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I was looking at a Torker II on ebay this afternoon for around $150 but doing a little searching around on different websites it didn't appear to be that well liked. I was seeing more compliments for the Holley Street Dominator and Eddy rpm manifolds as far as torque was concerned. I had a Torker on my old 440/4 spd 72 gtx way back when and it didn't seem like it ran like it should have but that's been 30 years ago and my memory has faded a little.
69 EF8 GTX 440 auto
72 EB5 RR/GTX 440 auto
70 EW1 GTX 440-6 4 spd
70 EF8 Satellite 318 auto (452 coming soon)
70 FK5 Satellite 318 auto
71 FC7 Cuda 340 4 spd
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 440gtx6]
#1542344
12/01/13 08:21 PM
12/01/13 08:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
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I have ran both type of intakes on several different motors, if your staying with the stock size 440 intake ports use the sixpak and take the time and effort to dial it in to make it work like you want it to  The stock sixpak Holley outboard carbs are way to lean from the factory  Also a lot of them will either stick the ouboard carbs shut or open to quickly causing a bog. I have, and you can to, fix those problems, time and effort and maybe some money spent on parts and tools to modify the stock carbs  BTW, the Eddy Torker 11 440 intake is a slug, stay away from them  The Mopar M1 single plane or the Eddy Performer RPM are a lot better, 20+ HP and more torque gain than that on them compared to the Torker 11 on the same day and the same motor and with the same carb. with no other changes. As already said big C.I. motors like a lot of air, the more air the better Use the parts you have(6 pak) and spend that money on some other parts you need There are a lot of 6pak naysayers on here as well as in the rest of the world, once you get them(the sixpak) dialed in they will show the cars behind you, with the stock type single 4 barrel and single plane intakes like the Torker 11 set ups, your tailights in a heads up acceleration contest   More air, more power 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1542345
12/01/13 08:31 PM
12/01/13 08:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,946
Connecticut
5126brl No more
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,946
Connecticut
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Just my Last year with the sixpack and street tires 11.80's at 118 mph. this year with victor intake,800 cfm dp,slicks 11.40's at 118 mph. 440 .055 over with solid,stock port size bulldog heads, 3880# with driver.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1542346
12/01/13 08:32 PM
12/01/13 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
440gtx6
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 597
Lost in the 70's
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Great info, thanks! With the six pack setup I like the idea of using what I've already got, leaves some money to spend on a few other things. Biggest single 4V carb I've got laying around is a 800 DP Holley. So what can I expect from the six pack setup after rework, 950 cfm?
69 EF8 GTX 440 auto
72 EB5 RR/GTX 440 auto
70 EW1 GTX 440-6 4 spd
70 EF8 Satellite 318 auto (452 coming soon)
70 FK5 Satellite 318 auto
71 FC7 Cuda 340 4 spd
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Dragula]
#1542348
12/01/13 09:10 PM
12/01/13 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
A single 4bbl on a good intake manifold will make more power than the six pack setup, but the six pack looks cool. Just depend what you want.
X2
First off, the dual plane intake is a big restriction, if you don't open it up, no way to pull more air thru than the intake will allow.
Second, the six pack carbs require recalibrating. Best to send them to Quick Fuel, or someone who will convert them..
hah no need to do that. Mine worked great right out of the box. I've adjusted them like I would any other carb. Intake and carbs are stock and pulls to 6400 w/o any issues.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1542349
12/01/13 09:15 PM
12/01/13 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A single 4bbl on a good intake manifold will make more power than the six pack setup, but the six pack looks cool. Just depend what you want.
X2
First off, the dual plane intake is a big restriction, if you don't open it up, no way to pull more air thru than the intake will allow.
Second, the six pack carbs require recalibrating. Best to send them to Quick Fuel, or someone who will convert them..
hah no need to do that. Mine worked great right out of the box. I've adjusted them like I would any other carb. Intake and carbs are stock and pulls to 6400 w/o any issues.
but you have a 440 right? see what happens when you stick them on a 505, will you just crank that little screw on the side of the carb to feed it enough air to idle?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 440gtx6]
#1542350
12/01/13 09:22 PM
12/01/13 09:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Great info, thanks!
With the six pack setup I like the idea of using what I've already got, leaves some money to spend on a few other things. Biggest single 4V carb I've got laying around is a 800 DP Holley. So what can I expect from the six pack setup after rework, 950 cfm?
Don't worry about the CFM numbers What you will get from a decently set up sixpak is mind numbing torque and HP Make sure your rear tires are up for the task in front of them   The last dyno testing I did with a sixpak compared to a well set up Holley 1050 CFM Dominator on a good single plane intake with 440 port size headed motor made the exact same torque with both intakes, the sixpak set up made 8 HP more than the 1050 Dominator did I have dyno tested a bunch of different pump gas B and RB Mopar single four barrel motors of all different C.I. sizes and several different BB Mopar motors with sixpak set ups on similar prepared motors, all the six paks made peak torque at or below 4600 RPM and they made peak HP at or belwo 5800 RPM on the dynos In my bracket car all the six pak motors ran faster shifting them above 6500 RPM, as already mentioned The sixpak motors ran faster at the track than the similar 4 barrel motors did So if you only rely on dyno testing and don't take the parts to the 1/4 mile drag tracks in the same car with no other changes you will never know what the real world results are at the track when comparing single four barrel motors with a similar equipted six pak motor My first .060 over 440 sixpak blueprinted pump gas iron headed motor only made 470 HP, it pushed a full interior street 1970 Challenger 4 speed car with a 3.54 Dana gear and a set of 275x60x15 BFG drag radials to mid to high elevens through the muffs on CA pump gas It made more torque than HP also but I didn't focus on torque numbers back then so I don't remember exacly how much torque that motor made now  I built myself a 512 C.I. 400 block pump gas street stroker motor with a Eddy stock 383 sixpak intake with a set of stock 1970 440 carbs modified by C&J Engr. in Whittier,CA it had a set of midly ported 906 heads on it so it didn't flow a lot of air into that motor, that combination (9.25 to 1 comp. ratio) ended up making 612 HP at 5600 RPM and 644 Ft lbs at 4500 RPM on CA pump gas 8 yrs ago Sixpaks and strokers rule  I used to help a freind race a bracket 1968 Roadrunner, it started off with a Eddy 440 Torker intake, not the later Torker 11 ,and a 750 DP Holley, we switched that car to a stock 1970 cast iron intake with stock 1970 CA spec. Holley six pak carbs with no jetting or modifying them. That car picked up .15 ET and almost 2 MPG with the intake and carb. change only We switched it back later that summer and the car slowed down exactly what it had picked up earlier in the year
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1542351
12/01/13 09:22 PM
12/01/13 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A single 4bbl on a good intake manifold will make more power than the six pack setup, but the six pack looks cool. Just depend what you want.
X2
First off, the dual plane intake is a big restriction, if you don't open it up, no way to pull more air thru than the intake will allow.
Second, the six pack carbs require recalibrating. Best to send them to Quick Fuel, or someone who will convert them..
hah no need to do that. Mine worked great right out of the box. I've adjusted them like I would any other carb. Intake and carbs are stock and pulls to 6400 w/o any issues.
but you have a 440 right? see what happens when you stick them on a 505, will you just crank that little screw on the side of the carb to feed it enough air to idle?
yes stock stroke 440, I guess it would depend on the rest of the build, unported stealth heads, mild cam and 505ci probably... however my next build will be 500+ci w/ a couple of whisltes, so the six pack will go on the shelf.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: 440gtx6]
#1542352
12/01/13 09:36 PM
12/01/13 09:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,318
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,318
Prospect, PA
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I cannot speak directly to the Torker II. I did several engine dyno pulls on my 500" motor with the Indy dual plane, Six Pack, and Holley SD. The 4 bbl was a small venture 950 Holley type carb. You can spend hours in the weeds dissecting all of the data, but the bottom line is they were all pretty close to each other. The six pack was better than the SD but weaker than the 2D up to 4200. After that the six pack trailed them both. FWIW, I track tuned my six pack set up on a 440 with a small hydraulic cam. My best ets/mph were achieved with jetting similar to the MP engine manual. I slapped it on the 500 on the dyno and ended up with the best numbers coming with only a slight increase in jet size. I just don't think the six pack is that hard to tune or that far off.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1542357
12/02/13 04:42 PM
12/02/13 04:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
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Im no expert of any kind but my experience whit the Six Pack setup on a 440 and a 505 stroker is the same as Cab is trying to explane but i gueas that some of you out there tryed out bad carbs that some one had destroid before you got your hands on them and tryed it out I found a great articel explaining how they work and how to tune the carbs that whas writen by a Dr. Jerry Binder that i can recomend you reed and i can email it to you if you PM me whit the email If you whant i can share the jeting i ended up whit on my setup Im going to try a progresive six pack kind of carbs for next summer from Barry Grant but i have to make the outer carbīs venturi larger first
Last edited by Mopar Guy; 12/02/13 04:43 PM.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#1542358
12/02/13 07:48 PM
12/02/13 07:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Im no expert of any kind but my experience whit the Six Pack setup on a 440 and a 505 stroker is the same as Cab is trying to explane but i gueas that some of you out there tryed out bad carbs that some one had destroid before you got your hands on them and tryed it out
I found a great articel explaining how they work and how to tune the carbs that whas writen by a Dr. Jerry Binder that i can recomend you reed and i can email it to you if you PM me whit the email
If you whant i can share the jeting i ended up whit on my setup
Im going to try a progresive six pack kind of carbs for next summer from Barry Grant but i have to make the outer carbīs venturi larger first
I think the BG six-shooter mechanicals have far less cfm than the stock units...
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1542359
12/03/13 08:25 AM
12/03/13 08:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,629
pa
572charger
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,629
pa
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493 stroker e heads un ported right out of the box
11 to 1 comp pump gas
3800 lbs with me in it
10.95 at 120.50with 850 holley /victor intake 4.56 gear
11.18 at 121.60 with stock 6pac intake promax carb plates
4.10 gear
i think if we put the 456 gearback in it, it will run the same
only the 6 pac factor on the street is awesome
and it gets 12 mph to the gallon on the hiway!!
606 hemi pump gas best 9.60 at 142mph on motor
05 hemi daytona 1500 go-mango 4wd quadcab
2007 hotrod mag pump gas drags runner up, roadkill nights dodge big tire winner 2018 2019 back to back
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1542360
12/03/13 11:18 AM
12/03/13 11:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
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Quote:
Quote:
Im no expert of any kind but my experience whit the Six Pack setup on a 440 and a 505 stroker is the same as Cab is trying to explane but i gueas that some of you out there tryed out bad carbs that some one had destroid before you got your hands on them and tryed it out
I found a great articel explaining how they work and how to tune the carbs that whas writen by a Dr. Jerry Binder that i can recomend you reed and i can email it to you if you PM me whit the email
If you whant i can share the jeting i ended up whit on my setup
Im going to try a progresive six pack kind of carbs for next summer from Barry Grant but i have to make the outer carbīs venturi larger first
I think the BG six-shooter mechanicals have far less cfm than the stock units...
Yes Mr Yuck they are smaler on the outboard carbs but i wrote that im about to enlarge the venturiīs on those the pic show tha carb body from the BG verses Holley ! The BG should flow 355 cfm and the Holley 500 cfm and as you can see the anual booster in the BG is bigger and there are 8 feeding holes under the booster but the venturi is a tad smaler and im going to copy the opening area from the Holley to those BGīs in al 4 corners
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: ppmracing]
#1542362
12/03/13 04:26 PM
12/03/13 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
We got 45 Moore hp with this custome sheet metal six pack intake , compaire to a max ported Edelbrock Victor with a 800cfm carb.
We put allot off work in the carburator and the trottle respons is awesome,,,, 60 feet time 1,251 with trans brake and 3250 Pound car.
Does it help to port or gasket match the six-pack intake?
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542367
12/04/13 09:15 AM
12/04/13 09:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Ok so how would the Weiand six-pac intake stand up to the single 4 intake? I hope better because that's what I got. Man it looks wild!
Is it the 6-pack "Ram" style w/ the top plate? If so yes, it's a good intake.
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Re: stock six pack vs single plane 4V?
[Re: BobR]
#1542369
12/05/13 11:38 AM
12/05/13 11:38 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
My 6 pak is on a SB 416. It has been port matched but other than that the manifold is as delivered. On the dyno it made 499 HP. We took that setup off and put on an RPM Airgap and an Holley 750 HP. We changed nothing else to optimize and the jets were as they were in the dyno mule carb. It picked up 39 HP with just the carb/manifold change. I have heard that the BB 6 paks are better than the SB but that's my story.
Big blocks work better with 6 packs..Id bet anything that the disparity would be FAR less...
I have made nice power with a 6 pack-in both standard and stroker applications....I dont find them difficult to tune at all and can work VERY well with stroker motors..
The Chevrolet version on the Corvette's are terrible, IMO and the single Holley on those work WAY better..
The photo is of a 526 I did for an A12 bee, but Ed Cooks A12 FAST cars both ran 10.70's with the manual trans A12 going 130MPH, set up just as the way it is in the photo..manifolds and bias tires..
MB
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