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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1513828
10/08/13 11:10 AM
10/08/13 11:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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What are the guidelines for the contest?
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: RAMM]
#1513829
10/08/13 12:04 PM
10/08/13 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Jesse - Good luck!  Sounds like this will be an interesting year (for me, at least) to check out the post-event engine build-up articles.  EDIT: Also best of luck to any other Moparts members participating this year. 
Last edited by BradH; 10/08/13 01:18 PM.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1513831
10/08/13 03:32 PM
10/08/13 03:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
"Yes the first 4 engines have been developed to a very high level. The Pontiac of Throttle's Performance has set the bar very high."
What's the magic with Pontiac engines? I always thought that they were abit of an also ran when it came to max performance (small bore spacing, poor oiling, huge main bearings) but Kaase did well with one a few years ago and it sounds like this one is a top runner as well. Does any make have the possibility to win given enough $ and development?
No magic.....
There is alot of development going on in the Pontiac world. They have new heads and blocks and some of the best guys are developing them.
Goods parts are obviously a must, but the best parts around will do you no good if they aren't being developed by the best people and Pontiacs have the good fortune to be being thrashed on by top people at this point.
I have no idea what the Engine Masters stuff combination is, but overall, they have access to some excellent stuff.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: SRT6776]
#1513833
10/08/13 09:15 PM
10/08/13 09:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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There is a Gen III sitting in the background in one of the pics.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1513834
10/08/13 10:35 PM
10/08/13 10:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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Quote:
There is a Gen III sitting in the background in one of the pics.
In addition to the one that already broke?
I think a few years back a new hemi either won or did really good at this challenger. Might have been BES...
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: SRT6776]
#1513835
10/08/13 11:35 PM
10/08/13 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
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That mod motor is impressive. The P51 headed 572 Ford making 870hp on 11.5:1 compression and a hydraulic roller cam is nothing to sneeze at either!
I dig the EMC and all the interesting stuff that shows up every year!
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: RAMM]
#1513837
10/09/13 09:16 PM
10/09/13 09:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Some interesting numbers coming out from day one. Most are over 700 HP.
Good luck to all that entered.
Yes the first 4 engines have been developed to a very high level. The Pontiac of Throttle's Performance has set the bar very high.
Our team (SKMFX Engines) are running first thing today. We had to withdraw our engine due to valvetrain difficulties-however Randy Malik has graciously offered his 451 Mopar lowdeck stroker. The cylinder heads are Pro-Comp heads that are on it have been ported by the late Jeff of Modern Cylinder head. Randy is certain this engine will be quite strong.
We are also running our (mule) development engine Wed under the team name RRAM- Robinson Rutters Auto Machine. We too have chosen Pro-Comp heads on a 470 style build. I will post more info on this engine later today.
I met Bryce of Dr.J's and he suffered a devastating set back in the last few days before EnginMasters. He assures me this engine was nowhere near what he had. In fact this engine was assembled with the components he had in his shop. The heads were his 220e AirWolfs. J.Rob
Nice #'s Jesse Good work
Matt
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: MattW]
#1513838
10/09/13 09:17 PM
10/09/13 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Well somebody from "Triple S" just posted a 707 hp 434 cid indy head 230 CNC with the intake combo.  I would love to see more of whats inside. I believe they are limited to 11.5 comp and a hydraulic. Very impressive.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: RAMM]
#1513839
10/09/13 10:20 PM
10/09/13 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
We are also running our (mule) development engine Wed under the team name RRAM- Robinson Rutters Auto Machine. We too have chosen Pro-Comp heads on a 470 style build. I will post more info on this engine later today.
Well?
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: MattW]
#1513842
10/10/13 11:41 PM
10/10/13 11:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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Quote:
The old BES 417 G3 engine was pressed into service again by Bradley Built Engines. It was using the ThieTek cylinder heads. Peak numbers of 778 hp and 642 tq.
HOLY CRAP!!!!! 
Incredible numbers, very impressive! Drop the compression and put 30psi to it.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: BradH]
#1513843
10/11/13 12:44 AM
10/11/13 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
We are also running our (mule) development engine Wed under the team name RRAM- Robinson Rutters Auto Machine. We too have chosen Pro-Comp heads on a 470 style build. I will post more info on this engine later today.
Well?
He11, I just went and looked for myself:
"Jesse Robinson and the Robinson Rutters Auto Machine team came to compete with a 466-cubic inch big block Mopar low deck engine. Actually, this engine was the team’s development and testing piece, but was pressed into service when the competition engine failed to be completed in time. Topped with a set of RRAM-ported Procomp heads, and trick modifications everywhere you look, the Mopar dished out 755 horsepower and 674 lb-ft of torque. The effort resulted in a score of 2590.8 points, thought Jesse tells us the competition engine left back at the shop promised even more."
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: BradH]
#1513844
10/11/13 01:04 AM
10/11/13 01:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Sounds like the Mopes are making another good showing.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: Hemified3500]
#1513846
04/29/14 12:13 PM
04/29/14 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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Awesome! But for comparison....Didn't Steve Dulcich's 470 Chapman 285 Stage VI motor make like 752 BACK IN 2003 with a FLAT TAPPET CAM? Is it the same Westech Dyno they always use? It's be nice if this one wasn't another Kaase/Bischoff showdown at the end, Last year Kaase's 16 tube headers for the ford probably cost more to fab than more than 1/2 the fields complete motor effort. 
Last edited by Streetwize; 04/29/14 12:14 PM.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: Streetwize]
#1513847
04/29/14 02:26 PM
04/29/14 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Awesome!
But for comparison....Didn't Steve Dulcich's 470 Chapman 285 Stage VI motor make like 752 BACK IN 2003 with a FLAT TAPPET CAM?
Is it the same Westech Dyno they always use?
It's be nice if this one wasn't another Kaase/Bischoff showdown at the end, Last year Kaase's 16 tube headers for the ford probably cost more to fab than more than 1/2 the fields complete motor effort.
Someone check the date ... october 2013
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#1513848
04/29/14 05:37 PM
04/29/14 05:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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JohnRR,
What year did we all pitch in and enter our 470? I could swear it was '03 or 04 at the latest (at least 10 years ago)?
Steve placed 3rd that year behind kaase and a BBC that barely edged him out for second.
Dan and Dwayne headed it up with the much modded epoxied stage VI's that 440Jim wound up buying. I think they finally wound up on the 440 BBM powered pacer?
Guess my point was the HP per cube hasn't advanced all that much and less when you consider we were limited to a solid flat tappet back then.
Last edited by Streetwize; 04/29/14 05:40 PM.
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Re: engine master challenge
[Re: Streetwize]
#1513849
04/29/14 10:47 PM
04/29/14 10:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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Wize, you are correct in some respects but are not seeing the entire picture. EMC rules and their policing have come a LONG way since 2002-2003. Steve's 470 was no doubt a killer piece far ahead of its time, but when we are looking at "score" or average power; a broader spectrum of consideration must be employed. For example the dynos used in 2002-2003 were SuperFlow 901's and the RPM range was from 3000-6500 rpm. 2013 used DTS based dynos and an RPM range of 3000-7000 rpm. How much score do you think is hiding in 500 rpm? I can tell you and it is from 80-115 pts in my testing. Dividing Steve's 470's avg HP/TQ by 471 cubes under 2013's scoring procedure it would have came in around 2470 pts and that is at a 3500 rpm range. Our engine managed a 2590 over a full 4000 rpm range so either add 80-115 pts to ours or subtract from Steve's and you will begin to appreciate how power per cube has changed. Oh and my 466 is 5 cubes smaller for scoring purposes---every cube is worth 6 points of score.
Now we can talk about the differences in engine configurations as limited by the rules of their respective years.
Steve's engine was able to use an unlimited compression ratio--12.5 if memory serves. It also featured a Dominator 4500 sized carb. The flat tappet cam was a good thing compared to the hydraulic rollers mandated in 2013. To be honest there were more similarities between our engines than not because I designed it that way. Our 466 limited to 11.5 comp and a single 1.75" throttle bore (4150 950) and hydraulic roller cam wearing Pro-comp heads did quite well in perspective. I'm fairly sure that another point in comp, a Dommy, and a big hairy solid would tag 800 or so HP considering.
To sum up----No the power per cube hasn't risen all that much if at all but the rules have slowly tightened and the only thing that matters is score in the game that is the EMC. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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