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71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights #1495266
09/02/13 07:14 PM
09/02/13 07:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Hey gang...
I think I have a short, but wanna run it by ya'll first.
Item:
'71 Challenger

Problem:
Blowing hazard fuse and when I apply the brake lights, the left side of the taillamps acts funny. When the lights are on, then the brakes applied, the left most bulb goes out and when the brake is released, the light comes back on.....

I just put in a brand new turn signal switch. All body harnesses are new as well.


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495267
09/02/13 07:36 PM
09/02/13 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,957
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Check the tail light socket grounds.

Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: stumpy] #1495268
09/02/13 08:12 PM
09/02/13 08:12 PM
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Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Quote:

Check the tail light socket grounds.




I took out one of the sockets ( driver's side ) and then turned out the running lights, it came on........ So, is the circuit for the taillamps internally grounded? I also noticed on the sockets there is a little male pigtail..... I don't ever recall a wire leading away from that...


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495269
09/02/13 08:28 PM
09/02/13 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,957
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Should be grounded through the socket assembly to the body. If the paint or sealer is too thick between the tail light housing and the body you will have ground problems. You could run a wire from the pigtail to the body and that would help.

Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: stumpy] #1495270
09/02/13 09:10 PM
09/02/13 09:10 PM
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Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Quote:

Should be grounded through the socket assembly to the body. If the paint or sealer is too thick between the tail light housing and the body you will have ground problems. You could run a wire from the pigtail to the body and that would help.




How come the running light for that one socket, when pulled from the housing and laid on the trunk floor comes on?

Also, not sure if it is related, but, when I have the key in Ignition 1, none of the wires on the turn-signal wiring group ( dash side ), has any juice, none of them......

All the harnesses are new and well, it isn't rocket-science... So, I'm not sure where I could have gone wrong there other than an improper ground due to the paint job and lack of attention to grounding points........ There was a mega-sound system installed, so I'm hoping the crew didn't screw up one of my grounding points....


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: stumpy] #1495271
09/02/13 11:21 PM
09/02/13 11:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
Michael Ecks Offline
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Quote:

You could run a wire from the pigtail to the body and that would help.




My 71 was really bad to corrode at the taillight housing. I would either scrape the area where the sockets plug in or use a wire brush there and they would work for a while. Last time through I soldered a wire to the outside of each socket and ran it to an attaching screw going into the body. Fortunately I care more about function than correctness points.

The whole body is your ground point, that is why that light when power is fed to it comes on when you touch it to the trunk floor. Probably less filler/primer/paint there and the current runs through. So if you are having problems with grounds points just scrape the paint off the area underneath whatever screw etc and coat that area with dielectric grease to prevent it from rusting.

Ground problems aside, for the odd behaviors you are seeing, try pulling all of your bulbs and make sure you didn't put a single contact (1156) into a double contact (1157) socket. It will make all kinds of things go wrong...Don't ask me how I know.

Good luck


"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of
your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: Michael Ecks] #1495272
09/03/13 07:51 AM
09/03/13 07:51 AM
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Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Michael, the bulb that was lit was on the trunk floor resting on the trunk mat, not bare metal. I will check that the bulb is correct. Thanks.....

Troy


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495273
09/03/13 11:15 PM
09/03/13 11:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Saga continues........ I got the brake lights to work, so that's a tick mark. But, the 4-way circuit is still blowing fuzes and the turn signals are ALWAYs going now, even in the neutral position. The turn-signal switch is brand new and the wires are not pinched anywhere in the steering column. Now, else where, no clue. I checked the grounding of the front parking like housings and they are good. I will disconnect the rear body harness tomorrow when I get home to isolate that and see if the front works ok. But, something that's weird. Part of the turn-signal circuit goes to the radio? Here are snapshots of what I am talking about.

1. X12-18R goes to the radio ( the hot wire for the radio power feed ), the connection in the dash harness isn't hooked to the radio. The radio in the car is an aftermarket system.


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495274
09/03/13 11:16 PM
09/03/13 11:16 PM
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Houston, Tx
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2. The other end of X12-18R goes to the turn-signal flasher.. What the? is this the power source for the radio ( feeds off the turn-signal circuit )?

Gut tells me, with the 4-way blowing a fuse so fast, there has to a short on the body somewhere..... Not, doesn't explain why the turn-signal flasher starts as soon as the key is placed in ignition 1.

Last edited by hemi68charger; 09/03/13 11:18 PM.

Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495275
09/06/13 12:46 PM
09/06/13 12:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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All,
I am still having grounding/feedback problems with the turn-signal and 4-way circuit. If I disconnect the forward and rear body connections at the firewall and driver's kick panel, will the circuit still work in such that the flashers and dash lights will work? Or, do I have to have EVERYTHING connected in order for the turn-signal and 4-way flasher to work? I am trying to isolate the circuit to narrow down the possible problem.


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495276
09/06/13 02:04 PM
09/06/13 02:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,237
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
1. Check to be sure that you have the correct bulbs. I have seen people put twin filament bulbs in a single filament socket and vice versa. You shouldn't be able to but it can be done.

2. There are grounds are in the trunk drivers side near the rear panel and another one behind the battery. Make sure they are grounded well.

3. Disconnect the rear light harness under the drivers kick panel and see if it fixes the blown fuses. If so check the south end of the car.

4. Disconnect the wires to the turn signal/emergency switch and see if any are grounded to the column. Disconnect the headlight switch and see if it fixes the blown fuse problem also.

Does it blow fuses if the e-flasher is removed? There are two flashers. One near the column and one behind the ashtray. Could be a metal can flasher internally grounded.

Is the dash harness new also? If not check for crispy wires from the alternator gauge and behind the fuse block. It is common for the main power wires to toast and short other wires in the dash harness. I had one that the running lights would not go off but I could dim them from the headlight switch dimmer. Weird stuff happens when the wires melt.

Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: IMGTX] #1495277
09/06/13 03:12 PM
09/06/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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1. Check to be sure that you have the correct bulbs. I have seen people put twin filament bulbs in a single filament socket and vice versa. You shouldn't be able to but it can be done.

I have checked the bulbs, they are proper


2. There are grounds are in the trunk drivers side near the rear panel and another one behind the battery. Make sure they are grounded well.
The ground near the battery is there and in good condition and secure…..

Now, off the top of my head, I can’t recall hooking up a ground wire associated with the rear body harness. Where does it connect? Near the corner of the deck lid by the taillamp housing on the driver’s side?


3. Disconnect the rear light harness under the drivers kick panel and see if it fixes the blown fuses. If so check the south end of the car.

I did that and it didn’t…..


4. Disconnect the wires to the turn signal/emergency switch and see if any are grounded to the column. Disconnect the headlight switch and see if it fixes the blown fuse problem also.
The turn signal harness/switch is brand new. The steering column is loose, so no pinched wires.

Does it blow fuses if the e-flasher is removed? There are two flashers. One near the column and one behind the ashtray. Could be a metal can flasher internally grounded.

I have replaced both flasher with new ones ( same part number from Autozone )…. I will test removing the e-flasher from the harness and turn it on at the column and see if a fuze is blown. But, have to ask, if the flasher is disconnected, how is the circuit complete?


Is the dash harness new also? If not check for crispy wires from the alternator gauge and behind the fuse block. It is common for the main power wires to toast and short other wires in the dash harness. I had one that the running lights would not go off but I could dim them from the headlight switch dimmer. Weird stuff happens when the wires melt.

The dash harness, like all others, is brand new……….. M&H


Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495278
09/06/13 08:38 PM
09/06/13 08:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline OP
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Tada !!!

The culprit: me...........

I had the pigtail connections on the side mark lights and the front parking lights reversed...... Explains EVERYTHING !!!

Glad I took a break from it all and took a deep breath and went back to the FSM and worked my way from the front to the rear... Luckily, I started at the "broken" end first and saved a LOT of frustration....

I never give up !!!!

Works perfectly.....

Last edited by hemi68charger; 09/06/13 08:38 PM.

Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 71 Challenger: Flasher and brake lights [Re: hemi68charger] #1495279
09/06/13 11:03 PM
09/06/13 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,957
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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You aren't the first or the last guy to do that.







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