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Battery relocation = hard start ? Update...it's fixed
#1494842
09/02/13 10:30 AM
09/02/13 10:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
firefighter3931
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
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Relocated the battery in my Charger and now it's having a dificult time turning over to fire. With the battery up front it spun over like a top. - 1500 cca Oddessy AGM battery fully charged - #1 hot wire from battery to starter - Flaming river 250 amp master switch - #1 ground wire to roll bar I'm thinking i need to run an additional ground (#1 wire)from the rollbar forward to the engine ?  Thoughts ? Ron
Last edited by firefighter3931; 09/12/13 01:29 PM.
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: firefighter3931]
#1494844
09/02/13 10:47 AM
09/02/13 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,354
Aurora, Oh.
max_maniac
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,354
Aurora, Oh.
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Quote:
Relocated the battery in my Charger and now it's having a dificult time turning over to fire. With the battery up front it spun over like a top.
- 1500 cca Oddessy AGM battery fully charged
- #1 hot wire from battery to starter
- Flaming river 250 amp master switch
- #1 ground wire to roll bar
I'm thinking i need to run an additional ground (#1 wire)from the rollbar forward to the engine ?
Thoughts ?
Ron
Sounds like it could be a ground issue but should not have to run another line to the front. You need to make sure the ground in back is solid and then maybe run a ground from the front roll bar in engine bay to the engine or maybe from the frame to the engine.
Russ
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: firefighter3931]
#1494845
09/02/13 11:04 AM
09/02/13 11:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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How is the engine/trans connected to the frame now?
How much surface area is on the lug that is connecting your NEG- wire to roll bar. Some are too small and make a high resistance connection that will not pass the current well.
You can use a meter and check for voltage drop across your connections(or current path) under load and pin point problems.
Last edited by Just-a-dart; 09/02/13 11:08 AM.
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#1494847
09/02/13 11:42 AM
09/02/13 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
firefighter3931
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
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Thanks for the ideas so far.  Currently the engine is mounted using the factory rubber mounts with the driver side mount reinforced with bolts running through the engine brackets & rubber biscuit so there is some grounding there. I also have a big ground strap from the cylinder head to the firewall. With the battery up front the ground wire attached directly to the cylinder head so that's why i'm thinking the rollbar ground is inadequate. Russ, the Charger just has an 8pt bar so there are no front bars welded to the front framerails. Ron
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: firefighter3931]
#1494848
09/02/13 12:38 PM
09/02/13 12:38 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Thanks for the ideas so far.
Currently the engine is mounted using the factory rubber mounts with the driver side mount reinforced with bolts running through the engine brackets & rubber biscuit so there is some grounding there. I also have a big ground strap from the cylinder head to the firewall.
With the battery up front the ground wire attached directly to the cylinder head so that's why i'm thinking the rollbar ground is inadequate.
Russ, the Charger just has an 8pt bar so there are no front bars welded to the front framerails.
Ron
Im with the others, Ron...
Take a hard look at your grounds...Also. get as good a battery as you can. Deep cycle is best.
DO the primary wires get very hot when you attempt to crank it over?
MB
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#1494852
09/02/13 03:44 PM
09/02/13 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,287
Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,287
Morrow, OH
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You need to measure your voltage drops. Measure from the positive stud on the battery to the hot stud on the starter while you are cranking it over. Do the same for the negative stud on the battery to the case of the starter (engine block if you can't get to the starter frame).
The voltage will be zero when you are not cranking, and will show the voltage drops while you are cranking.
I would think a half volt drop per cable would be good, but I suspect most have more than that. Measure the voltage and let us know what they are - we can make a determination where the problem is from the readings.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: dodger mope]
#1494854
09/03/13 10:07 AM
09/03/13 10:07 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
something that's not thought about is grounds not working and electrical currant flow through the transmission to the rear.it will micro weld parts,mainly the bushings to the shafts and in time take its toll
Good point...
I see more wiped out pump bushings from this than you can believe...
MB
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: HPMike]
#1494855
09/04/13 12:10 AM
09/04/13 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
something that's not thought about is grounds not working and electrical currant flow through the transmission to the rear.it will micro weld parts,mainly the bushings to the shafts and in time take its toll
Good point...
I see more wiped out pump bushings from this than you can believe...
MB
Ive heard of this over the years , but never have seen it. I truly believe its a old time myth.
Electricity will take the path of least resistance.
If I were electricity, I would travel through the, frame first, and second the aluminum trans case before I would fight my way through the trans center with oil and clearence factor restrictions.
I just dont see the Micro weld deal ever actually happening. Its a Myth that has been around since the 60,s.
But whats not a myth, is a good ground! People buy huge positive feed cables and think thier good. The negative side needs to be equally addressed.
Your grounds need to be as good as your positive feeds, and if all your connections are good, with the proper amps for your needs, you will be good to go. 
Last edited by Sport440; 09/04/13 12:13 AM.
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: Sport440]
#1494856
09/04/13 12:13 AM
09/04/13 12:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
something that's not thought about is grounds not working and electrical currant flow through the transmission to the rear.it will micro weld parts,mainly the bushings to the shafts and in time take its toll
Good point...
I see more wiped out pump bushings from this than you can believe...
MB
Ive heard of this over the years , but never have seen it. I truly believe its a old time myth.
Electricity will take the path of least resistance.
If I were electricity, I would travel through the, frame first, and second the aluminum trans case before I would fight my way through the trans center with oil and clearence factor restrictions.
I just dont see the Micro weld deal ever actually happening. Its a Myth that has been around since the 60,s.
But whats not a myth, is a good ground! People buy huge positive feed cables and think there good. The negative side needs to be equally addressed.
Your grounds need to be as good as your positive feeds, and if all your connections are good, with the proper amps you will be good to go.
Yep and yep
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: B3422W5]
#1494857
09/04/13 01:34 AM
09/04/13 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Ron all I have is my battery grounded to the frame/body in the trunk and I have a battery cable from my firewall to the pass cyl head. No problems and as was said you can never have to many grounds. If you still have trouble I would do voltage drop test as I cant tell you how many cars I have fixed and found the trouble doing voltage drop test with a simple voltmeter. Good luck as you have to have that sweet Charger starting good. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 09/04/13 01:36 AM.
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: Sport440]
#1494859
09/04/13 10:03 AM
09/04/13 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
something that's not thought about is grounds not working and electrical currant flow through the transmission to the rear.it will micro weld parts,mainly the bushings to the shafts and in time take its toll
Good point...
I see more wiped out pump bushings from this than you can believe...
MB
Ive heard of this over the years , but never have seen it. I truly believe its a old time myth.
Electricity will take the path of least resistance.
If I were electricity, I would travel through the, frame first, and second the aluminum trans case before I would fight my way through the trans center with oil and clearence factor restrictions.
I just dont see the Micro weld deal ever actually happening. Its a Myth that has been around since the 60,s.
But whats not a myth, is a good ground! People buy huge positive feed cables and think thier good. The negative side needs to be equally addressed.
Your grounds need to be as good as your positive feeds, and if all your connections are good, with the proper amps for your needs, you will be good to go.
In the early L-bodies we were eating up wheel bearings
and we found that a bad ground was the issue.. once
they installed a good ground the problem went away...
thats fact.. not myth... if I could find the bulletin
on it I would post it... but that was years ago
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1494860
09/04/13 08:44 PM
09/04/13 08:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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If running aluminum heads run a # 2 welding cable from each head to the side of the block,from there run a # 2 cable to the neg side of your battery,also ground your MSD to the same spot on the block.There is a 3/8" bolt hole on the side of the block,bolt all of them together.You will have no more cranking problems and a better ignition.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: Battery relocation = hard start ?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1494861
09/12/13 01:35 PM
09/12/13 01:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
firefighter3931
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
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Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. I ended up purchasing some #1 cable and ran it from the same spot that the neg battery terminal is tied into on the base of the rollbar. From there i went forward to the engine and it is tied into the heavy braided cable that extends to the firewall. The firewall side braided cable is bolted to the voltage regulator and neg (heavy black) side of the MSD box. Starts up like a 4cyl...spins over super fast. I have the distributor locked out at 34* and the 572 has 10.7:1 compression. Ron
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