Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1494386
10/01/13 03:23 PM
10/01/13 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813 Ontario,Canada
brads70
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
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Quote:
67Autocross -- Paul did remove the mini-light rims/tires... he now has my original 15x7 Ralley rims (with BFG T/A 245-60 front, 275-60 rear) which he and I worked in a trade/deal/cash. Read above other replies. Paul's RR is a rocket ship and a blast to drive... someone will get a really good car!
Well? It's been a week now where are the pictures of those wheels installed! Slacker!
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494387
10/01/13 05:01 PM
10/01/13 05:01 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723 Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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... Then I spoke with Mr. Angry concerning the cross roads I was at with the project....Either dump 30K into this 72 Runner to make the car I wanted it to become or sell it and move on.
From Mr Angry:
Quote:
The Mustang is by far the best way to go. I hit the track at least twice per month, I'm an instructor with NASA and an automotive journalist which means I get to drive just about everything under the sun. Bang for the buck the Mustang cannot be beat. I purchased a new 2013 base model GT last year with the track pack and the Recaro's. It's been bullet proof and has the capacity in stock form to compete with much higher dollar cars.
Now... if you want to step your game up even more, look at a Camaro SS with the 1LE package. That will out handle the Mustang as it has better suspension and much wider meat all around. However it will run about 5-6k more.
Then from Dan @ hotchkis :
Quote:
At the last SDR-SCCA Autocross a friend of mine was doing some 200tw tire testing in his Mustang on the Saturday practice while I was running the Challenger. The fastest tire he tried was the Falken 615K, and with those was about 2 seconds off of my pace. The following day, when he was back on his slicks, he had me covered by about a second. He is a really good driver and is in the running for a jacket in ESP with a bone stock 2012 5.0 with tires.
Good luck with your build. I wish you the best of luck in obtaining your goals.
Funny thing is we read the same thing, and interpreted two totally different things from what was said.
I see one guy who doesn't track his older mopars, but is very well equipped to advise what new car to buy if that's what you're after. And another who tracks his mopar and outperforms a new mustang on similar tires to the tune of 2 seconds per auto-x course.
Go Mopar
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar -'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1494388
10/01/13 07:52 PM
10/01/13 07:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
Quote:
... Then I spoke with Mr. Angry concerning the cross roads I was at with the project....Either dump 30K into this 72 Runner to make the car I wanted it to become or sell it and move on.
From Mr Angry:
Quote:
The Mustang is by far the best way to go. I hit the track at least twice per month, I'm an instructor with NASA and an automotive journalist which means I get to drive just about everything under the sun. Bang for the buck the Mustang cannot be beat. I purchased a new 2013 base model GT last year with the track pack and the Recaro's. It's been bullet proof and has the capacity in stock form to compete with much higher dollar cars.
Now... if you want to step your game up even more, look at a Camaro SS with the 1LE package. That will out handle the Mustang as it has better suspension and much wider meat all around. However it will run about 5-6k more.
Then from Dan @ hotchkis :
Quote:
At the last SDR-SCCA Autocross a friend of mine was doing some 200tw tire testing in his Mustang on the Saturday practice while I was running the Challenger. The fastest tire he tried was the Falken 615K, and with those was about 2 seconds off of my pace. The following day, when he was back on his slicks, he had me covered by about a second. He is a really good driver and is in the running for a jacket in ESP with a bone stock 2012 5.0 with tires.
Good luck with your build. I wish you the best of luck in obtaining your goals.
Funny thing is we read the same thing, and interpreted two totally different things from what was said.
I see one guy who doesn't track his older mopars, but is very well equipped to advise what new car to buy if that's what you're after. And another who tracks his mopar and outperforms a new mustang on similar tires to the tune of 2 seconds per auto-x course.
Go Mopar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9xM-UM-vhw
And what is that called?
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494389
10/01/13 08:46 PM
10/01/13 08:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160 Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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What I got out of what Dan said is that a box stock 2012 gt on a street radial is two seconds slower per lap than his modified challenger on slicks. When the stock gt is on stickies it's a second a lap faster than his challenger on stickies.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: dannysbee]
#1494390
10/01/13 08:57 PM
10/01/13 08:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
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And here is a more accurate description of what the Mustang Track Package car suspension is like from Mike.....paraphrasing his words here since I didn't write them down... "It's a rental car platform with a soft suspension from the factory." All that and it still performs very close to what a Hotchkis Modified Challenger can do. So the bottom line is get the Mustang and Learn the car and then improve upon it. These are all production cars our old Mopars and the new Mustangs neither came out of the factory as a race car regardless of that R/T badge on the fender or the Boss 302 stripe on the car. How many cars here on Moparts are modified? Most are modified and some more so than others. Some are OE restored but not many. Out of those OE certified cars how many hit the track of any kind? Heck how many of those OE cars are even driven on the street???????????? Show poodles
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1494391
10/01/13 10:27 PM
10/01/13 10:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
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Quote:
67Autocross -- Paul did remove the mini-light rims/tires... he now has my original 15x7 Ralley rims (with BFG T/A 245-60 front, 275-60 rear) which he and I worked in a trade/deal/cash. Read above other replies. Paul's RR is a rocket ship and a blast to drive... someone will get a really good car!
My Road Runner is not for the person that does not know how to exercise proper throttle foot restraint.....if you can't well get ready to buy alot of rear tires.. and that is with a 2.94 gear and 28" tall rear tires
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494392
10/01/13 10:47 PM
10/01/13 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
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Bottom line, you cannot build an old car to the capability of a new car for the same cash. Sad as it is to say, it is true. That said, respect your elders. The styling of old Mopars cannot be beat. Roll up on a new mustang at a stop light with the old steel and see who gets the nod. Cruise the highway in the old steel get thumbs up, grins, and the like. New cars are like butt-holes, everybody has one. I very much respect the capabilities, engineering, refinement and the *owners* (not wanna be "posers" barely making their monthly payments) of the newer cars, but there is just something about the feeling of doing something special with 40+ year old steel no matter how much time or money it takes.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: amxautox]
#1494395
10/01/13 11:23 PM
10/01/13 11:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160 Texas
dannysbee
master
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Texas
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Who said highly modified. Missed that I guess.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: amxautox]
#1494396
10/01/13 11:30 PM
10/01/13 11:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't think that torsion bars, shocks, sway bars and chassis stiffening counts as highly modified.
It means catching up to modern standards.
Ya, I think 'highly modified' would be 4-corner coil-overs for starters.
Yes heavily modified from stock...when was the last time a factory E body left for the sales floor with a 1" + torsion bar.
You guys crack me up...nothing like stacking the deck in your favor.
If your comparing stock cars Mustang Track Pack as delivered to a Real Factory Challenger T/A as delivered the Challenger gets freaking smoked and that is even with bringing the 70 T/A up to date with modern tires..... using the same tire on both cars.
I guess you forgot to check how soft of a suspension that Mustang comes with from Ford....
If you had any interest in testing via the scientific method then you would have no problem bringing the Mustang up to the same level of suspension fortitude by allowing for comparable spring rates that are comparable to the torsion bar rates etc that are on the Hotchkis Challenger along with modified control arms etc etc.
Break out the rose colored glasses
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494397
10/01/13 11:32 PM
10/01/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
And here is a more accurate description of what the Mustang Track Package car suspension is like from Mike.....paraphrasing his words here since I didn't write them down...
"It's a rental car platform with a soft suspension from the factory."
All that and it still performs very close to what a Hotchkis Modified Challenger can do.
So the bottom line is get the Mustang and
Learn the car and then improve upon it. These are all production cars our old Mopars and the new Mustangs neither came out of the factory as a race car regardless of that R/T badge on the fender or the Boss 302 stripe on the car.
How many cars here on Moparts are modified? Most are modified and some more so than others. Some are OE restored but not many. Out of those OE certified cars how many hit the track of any kind? Heck how many of those OE cars are even driven on the street????????????
Show poodles
Well I said "Hotchkis Modified Challenger"
So now Hotchkis = Highly ?
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494398
10/01/13 11:39 PM
10/01/13 11:39 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Well, lets see, for comparison lets say 'modified' is changing the bars, t and sway. Highly modified, lets say that would be changing the suspension type, like going to coil overs.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494400
10/02/13 08:51 AM
10/02/13 08:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Geez, anything not stock or stock replacement is modified. Highly modified is more than bolt ons, imo.
So, bigger Tbars, fast ration pitman, 11.75" rotors on my Cuda are examples of modified.
coil overs, weld in subframe connectors, Watts linkages, 4 links, all are highly modified aspects.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: dannysbee]
#1494402
10/02/13 11:28 AM
10/02/13 11:28 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
What I got out of what Dan said is that a box stock 2012 gt on a street radial is two seconds slower per lap than his modified challenger on slicks. When the stock gt is on stickies it's a second a lap faster than his challenger on stickies.
The Challenger never runs slicks. When the Mustang was slower, we were both on Falken 615K's. Then he put on his A6's and smoked me.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1494404
10/02/13 12:02 PM
10/02/13 12:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160 Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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Thanks for the clarification Dan. Once a mustang has been modified with one of your suspension kits how would it stack up against the challenger, both on same tires?
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar *DELETED*
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1494405
10/02/13 12:09 PM
10/02/13 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805 San Francisco Bay Area
MrAngry
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805
San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
I see one guy who doesn't track his older mopars, but is very well equipped to advise what new car to buy if that's what you're after. And another who tracks his mopar and outperforms a new mustang on similar tires to the tune of 2 seconds per auto-x course.
- Come on Wade... we both know this couldn't be farther from the truth.
Last edited by MrAngry; 10/02/13 12:32 PM.
Never trust a pretty girl... or a lonely midget.
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